2020 black diamond HotForge Screwgate

Got one of these Saturday at REI. Seems like a nice medium sized locker. Used it cleaning sport routes. The screw gate has a nice feel to it. Easy to spin but gradually slows as you get to fully open or fully closed. Liked the action better than the metolius element and bravo. The screw felt better than my petzl Screwgate as well. Felt pretty lightweight too. Happy with my purchase. Hadn't seen many reviews online so I thought I would throw my first impressions out there.

i will say, i hate BD carabiners, but the hotforge ones are actually... good feeling. they finally spent the time to get the gate action right. and the lockers are pretty light feeling, if that's your thing.

Chris Blatchley wrote: i will say, i hate BD carabiners, but the hotforge ones are actually... good feeling. they finally spent the time to get the gate action right. and the lockers are pretty light feeling, if that's your thing.

Funny... it took taking production to Taiwan to make a nice carabiner

Rob Warden...Space Lizard wrote:

Funny... it took taking production to Taiwan to make a nice carabiner

the thought occurred to me too...

Thanks for the quick review but for myself, Meh.

50 grams with an 18mm gate opening? Not that special. Grivel's Plume Nut weighs 37 grams and has a gate opening of 19mm ( they say, it seems small to me). DMM's Sentinal comes in at 54grams with a 20mm opening and you can rappel via Munter (Italian Hitch) off of it.

PJK STL wrote: Got one of these Saturday at REI. Seems like a nice medium sized locker. Used it cleaning sport routes. 

PAS?

Rob Warden...Space Lizard wrote:

Funny... it took taking production to Taiwan to make a nice carabiner

Boom.

handled in person...not impressed.

So hot. Such screwgate. Much forge.

But it begs the question - why do you need a screwgate to clean sport routes?

Some people when you get to chain or rings pass a bight through tie an 8 and clip a locker to it. Additionally  the infamous PAS usually has a locker on the end

Anyone wanna fill me in on the PAS issue? I use one, what am I missing? Is it considered Gumby gear or something?

Doug Chism wrote: Anyone wanna fill me in on the PAS issue? I use one, what am I missing? Is it considered Gumby gear or something?

Several vocal experienced climbers are totally against the use of a PAS to the point that some will not even climb with you if you use a PAS.  Other very experienced climbers like and use them.

The complaints against the PAS boil down to:

• A PAS is unnecessary because you can use draws (alpine draws in multipitch environment) or the rope to accomplish the task.  

• A PAS adds to the cluster of gear on your harness and belay loop.

• Many PAS, but not all PAS, are made from static material (dyneema) so a slip onto the achor can have catastrophic results, especially if you have climbed above the anchor.

Personally, I find a PAS useful and use one.  I use the Petzl Connect which is made with a dynamic rope that can handle 5 fall factor 2 falls onto the anchor keeping the load in the safe range.  (not any worse than falling on the rope onto the the anchor).  Although I understand the complaints against the PAS, I find the hate of PAS, especially PAS made of dynamic material, unjustified. Use one if you feel the convenience of always having an easy clip into the anchor or gear outweighs the weight, cluster or static nature of some PAS.

Positron screwgate weighs 54 grams but has a 21mm opening.  You can find good deals on these since they've been around for many years.

Jared Sanders wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlLMlJ2tDkg

Rob Warden...Space Lizard wrote: Some people when you get to chain or rings pass a bight through tie an 8 and clip a locker to it. Additionally  the infamous PAS usually has a locker on the end

This. I was using a QD as a personal anchor, though this weekend I will be using a sling girth hitched to my belay loop.

climber pat wrote:

Several vocal experienced climbers are totally against the use of a PAS to the point that some will not even climb with you if you use a PAS.  Other very experienced climbers like and use them.

The complaints against the PAS boil down to:

• A PAS is unnecessary because you can use draws (alpine draws in multipitch environment) or the rope to accomplish the task.  

• A PAS adds to the cluster of gear on your harness and belay loop.

• Many PAS, but not all PAS, are made from static material (dyneema) so a slip onto the achor can have catastrophic results, especially if you have climbed above the anchor.

Personally, I find a PAS useful and use one.  I use the Petzl Connect which is made with a dynamic rope that can handle 5 fall factor 2 falls onto the anchor keeping the load in the safe range.  (not any worse than falling on the rope onto the the anchor).  Although I understand the complaints against the PAS, I find the hate of PAS, especially PAS made of dynamic material, unjustified. Use one if you feel the convenience of always having an easy clip into the anchor or gear outweighs the weight, cluster or static nature of some PAS.

Been using the metolius one, but like the connect idea, guessing you use the dual for anchor cleaning?

Doug Chism wrote:

Been using the metolius one, but like the connect idea, guessing you use the dual for anchor cleaning?

Doug, in case you haven't seen it, check out this great series of photos from the AAC for a way to clean sport anchors that only requires a quickdraw and a locker.  Because you never go off belay and you're always connected to the rope, you don't need any additional locking capability or redundancy.  Plus, it's fast and simple.

https://americanalpineclub.org/resources-blog/2016/3/15/5ipkouk0id07cgc3dqks4fljnsgnx6

(If you try this and don't like it and still prefer to use a PAS, that's totally fine and nobody should judge you for it).

Kyle Tarry wrote:

Doug, in case you haven't seen it, check out this great series of photos from the AAC for a way to clean sport anchors that only requires a quickdraw and a locker.  Because you never go off belay and you're always connected to the rope, you don't need any additional locking capability or redundancy.  Plus, it's fast and simple.

https://americanalpineclub.org/resources-blog/2016/3/15/5ipkouk0id07cgc3dqks4fljnsgnx6

(If you try this and don't like it and still prefer to use a PAS, that's totally fine and nobody should judge you for it).

I've done it that way but some that I climb with give me shit because it wears the rings compared to rappelling. 

Doug Chism wrote:

Been using the metolius one, but like the connect idea, guessing you use the dual for anchor cleaning?

I hardly ever sport climb.  Last time was about 2 years ago.  If I feel the need I clip an alpine draw to both bolts and clip the connect adjust to either a sliding x or an overhand knot.

I used the metolius pas for a few years.  The multiple loops on the metolius pas are nice to clip stuff to.