Rate my planned first trad rack

So, I've started leading (5.6ish) on other people's gear and it is a lot of fun! I think I'm hooked, so I'm looking to get my own rack over the winter, haha.
(I'm in Squamish and most of the easy routes are trad... so yeah I took my first lead fall on gear that I placed.)

Also, the mechanics of gear is quite interesting to me, and I'm willing to go a bit out fo the norm for something that may end up better in practice.
Please don't be dismissive just because some of my choices are a bit more off the beaten path. :)

Here's the tl;dr of my idea, with full details below:

- DMM Wallnuts: 1-11
- Camp Evo Tricams: .25, .5, 1, 1.5
- BD C4s: 1, 2, 3
- BD Z4s (on release): .3, .4, .5, .75
- Camp Ball Nuts: 2, 3, 4, 5
- Kong Gipsy: 2 (Yeah probably not)
- (Rack Carabiners): Camp Dyons

Total cost is like $~1200 Cad before tax

Unusual, I know. I often mix things like this to get what I like the best instead of sticking to one manufacturer.

I understand some of that stuff has a learning curve, which to be frank, kinda excites me.

EDIT: reply to many of the common comments, e.g. nut tool, draws, offsets, etc:
https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118017939/rate-my-planned-first-trad-rack?page=2#ForumMessage-118031778


DMM Wallnuts: 1-11

So far I quite fancy placing nuts where I can, and have used the larger size BD's the most.
DMM seems to have more range, and nuts with a bit more geometric "texture".

Camp Evo Tricams: .25, .5, 1, 1.5

A less expensive backup to other gear, plus they seem interesting and I'd really like to learn to be able to use them well.
I hear that everyone raves about .5 pinks.

Seems silly to me to get anything larger than the set though, for anything that would fit a #1 cam I just don't see the point.

BD C4s: 1, 2, 3

I like the way BD's feel, and the 2019 ones just got lighter. Good old reliable for these. Other gear should explain why only these sizes.

 BD Z4s (on release): .3, .4, .5, .75

I know Z4s aren't on the market yet, but it seems they should be better than the C4s / X4s for the comparable size range in every conceivable way.
Barely more expensive than C4s too if what we've heard about pricing is right.

I've done a bunch of research and it seems like people have damaged X4 cam lobes, probably with less-than-great placements.
Honestly I'm trying to avoid microcams due to relative fragility & hold power, hence the ball nuts in the list. That being said, Z4s allegedly have higher stress ratings than X4s or C3s.

I'm sure totems would have more holding power in odd situations, but they cost quite a bit more, don't feel as good as BDs in the hand, aren't as flexible as Z4s should be, don't go as small.
If I ever go for doubling up stuff though, I think I'll look at totems. I hope by that time totem makes dual-axle cams, at least for their mid-larger sized cams.

Camp Ball Nuts: 2, 3, 4, 5

Seems like people either love these or hate these. I'm willing to put some time and energy into learning them.

To me, these seem like a very reasonable alternative to microcams, with likely better holding and strength characteristics for the materials we have.
Also they go much smaller, thinner, and are still rated for hefty falls.
(Sure if we had a near-infinitely strong material cams would always be better, but even then eventually they would be impossible to place properly without assistance!)

I mostly climb on granite, which should dig into the copper ball head just fine.
Hopefully no one hates me for having to clean my first couple dozen sets of these...

Kong Gipsy: 2 (Yeah probably not)

Roughly covers cam sizes 4 & 5. Or I could ditch the #3 C4 and get a #1 of these too.

I can't find very much information on these, but I found out they exist, and they seem like a potentially better alternative to big cams.
They seem to be only available in Europe but I'm hoping some family over there can get ahold of them for me.

They are strength rated better, have a much wider range, and are lighter than the comparable cam sizes.
My main present concern is if they lack the ability to walk/reorient.

If anyone here has any extra info on these, that would be helpful. I'm probably going to get the #2 or #1 to give it a try regardless though.

(Rack Carabiners): Camp Dyons

These seem to be the non-catching wiregate carabiners I can find which come in rack packs. Thought I'd list it here for fun.

---

Let me know what you folks think!
Would you buy a rack like this if you started anew?
Would you be interested and/or comfortable climbing with someone with this kind of rack?
:D

p.s. hope this is the right subforum lol

How often do people use tricams in your area? I feel they work well at certain crags and don’t have much use at other.

Kong Gipsy seems cool, haven’t used one. But seems like they need certain things to work Properly based on input from others (smooth walls, etc) But seems Granite would be good

Z4’s i’d Probably wait and see how they are reviewed or get a feel for them. Personally I like c4’s more than X4’s most of the time. 

Overall seems like a good rack

Since you asked.

I'd recommend offset nuts over traditional (I never carry normal nuts anymore but did when I started out)
Skip the ball nutz and gipsy for now, they're a bit specialized and I think you'd be better off with another couple cams.
I too was fascinated by the function of tricams and grew to like them a lot, I think the set you outlined is the most you'd ever want.

This all said, if you want to buy funky toys go for it! A climbing rack is a bit of self-expression. Good luck with all the incoming opinions :)

don't buy ballnuts or tricams; buy cams smaller than 0.3

Don't do ball nuts. Also, off set nuts are a must. I would definitely grab small cams like metolius UL masters 00 through 2

How often do people use tricams in your area?

I think this could be summarized as "I've seen them". I'll ask at the local store.

I'd recommend offset nuts over traditional (I never carry normal nuts anymore but did when I started out)

Oh, good point. I forgot about those.

Yes I have considered offset nuts, and heard they are good. Haven't been with anyone that uses them yet, but they don't seem to come in sets with as nice of a range.
I do think that offset nuts generally make more geometric sense for what one is likely to encounter in any arbitrary piece of natural rock, though.

0/10

More spendy than you need to get started.

Get a nut tool. 

Echoing some of the above, get HB offsets (including brass) rather than the walnuts, they complement cams by working in flares where cams don’t work well. And forget the ballnuts unless you are building an aid rack. The Gypsy looks like a gimmick, I wouldn’t bother with. Tri cams are fun, but not mandatory. 

Echoing what others have said, I'd skip the ball nuts for now as they are quite specialized. I carry only offset nuts and would recommend the DMM offsets over the DMM wallnuts. I have never used or seen anyone else use the Kong Gipsy, but it is worth noting that an advantage of big cams is that they are easy to bump.

That said, a rack is a matter of preference. You should get what you feel comfortable using and trusting with your life.

ETA - I agree with other commenters that you're probably going overboard on a first rack. It's a generally good idea to start with a skinny standard rack of nuts and cams for your area and get to know them inside and out so that you can find them and place them effectively and efficiently. If you buy the whole kit and kaboodle of fancy fancies all at once rather than building slowly, it's harder to get to know your rack and figure out what kind of racking system really works for you. That said, if I were building an ideal fat trad rack for an experienced leader...

Another +1 on offset nuts. One of them saved me from a nasty fall out of an offwidth with a flared crack in the back where nothing else fit.

I don't know Squamish. Tricams are great if you are in an area with small pockets. They're also quite nice to use in gear anchors where you have a nice stance and can fiddle a bit more to place your pieces. Using one or two in the anchor lets you save your same-sized cams for the next pitch.  Most people are able to more quickly place cams than tricams, so tricams are less useful when you're pressed or pumped. However, they're lighter and cheaper than getting the same-sized cams, and like offset nuts they work well in some placements where nothing else fits.

If you consider micro cams, I love and often place my Metolius ultralight 00, 0, and 1 master cams. They are sturdy, easy to place, and will hold in roofs or parallel-sided horizontal cracks that spit out nuts. They are also totally adorable and fun to place.

Hi Jeremiah,

Long time NC trad climber here.
I second the motion on getting a nut tool.
Also, contrary to some opinions in this thread, I highly recommend adding a pink and red tricam to your rack because:
1.  They are narrow and fit funky pockety spots.
2.  The nylon sling can be used as a short runner.
3.  The rails nest in angle piton scars.
4.  They are great for hanging belays and enable you to conserve your cams for the next looming pitch.
5.  They are light.  If the route doesn't call for them, then don't carry 'em up, but don't leave home without them!

Cheers!

When I started climbing in Squamish, a single rack of Camalots (000-3) and single rack of nuts was plenty for almost everything I was strong enough for. Eventually I got doubles in the .5-3 range. Seems like you're getting way too complicated. Also a nut tool and alpine draws are very useful.

if you must ballnuts, learn how to place them and only bother getting the smallest 3 sizes. micro cams will do just dandy in the 3 bigger sizes of ballnuts. Also I would recommend having the tricams as they effectively act as doubles in the small hands and are much lighter tan adding more cams. As you get more experienced at reading climbs before the onsight, you can determine when to not carry certain pieces of gear. Just my 2 cents.

Chris K wrote: if you must ballnuts, learn how to place them and only bother getting the smallest 3 sizes. micro cams will do just dandy in the 3 bigger sizes of ballnuts. Also I would recommend having the tricams as they effectively act as doubles in the small hands and are much lighter tan adding more cams. As you get more experienced at reading climbs before the onsight, you can determine when to not carry certain pieces of gear. Just my 2 cents.

agreed 100%

also, ditch the c4s/z4s for .3-1 and just get black-red totems from marc. good discount for getting a full rack of them and they are better than BDs cams. especially in the smallest 3 sizes.

Carlos Danger wrote: 0/10

-10, the other 358 threads on this exact subject were left out

I'd swap the DMM Wallnuts for Wild Country Classic nuts.  I have both and don't tend to use the Wallnuts a lot, but of course that's dependent on where you climb.

Also, I'd highly recommend the DMM Offsets, they're so versatile.  

I'd also recommend the DMM Dragon cams and also the DMM Torque Nuts. Both have extendable slings which saves on quickdraws and gives more options for length.  

One set DMM Offsets
One set Metolius Mastercams
One set Totems

Draws, Slings.

Never in my life have I needed a ball cam and as a beginner, if you need to place any micro nuts or micro cams you’ll already be in way over your head and in big trouble. 

Don’t make more of it than you need to.

Absolutely no on the kong gypsy. They are awful and kind of sketch. Plus, you can bump big cams. Never tried ball nuts but have heard that its best not to bother. Tricams are great for long easy trad routes. They act as lightweight doubles of many cam sizes

Tricams: Its funny I see a lot of people on here say things like tricams are only useful for certains placements and yet out in the real world at least 50% of the people I see have them with them and love them.  Personally I always carry them but 90+% of the time I only use them for anchors or if I get on some pitch where everything is around that size and I run out of cams.

Ballnuts: This one also I see people call specialty pieces that no one actually uses but I fk'in love em.  Obviously they're smaller than mirco cams but rated higher than any micro cam, they're easier to place than small cams (narrow heads, less than half the width of a cam, only one moving part to inspect, with small cams checking the cam set on the inside of the crack can be all but impossible to see making an already marginal piece also suspect).  The bottom three sizes are always on my rack and have turned a number of PG-13 and R rated climbs into well protected ones.  Might depend on where you live and who you are but for me they're a no brainer.

Kongs: This one I've never used but I can't really see how they'd be something I'd want to carry unless you're doing a lot of wide crack climbing and even then they seem like they'd be super fiddly to place.

Another unusual choice that I'll recommend: Rabbit runners instead of alpine draws.  Clipped into a loop and slung over the shoulder they're faster and easier to pull off and clip than runners are in similar setups, no extending/repacking on each pitch like alpines and can be used in practically every place you'd use a draw (you can even prussik with them).  I carry two alpine draws for those few placements where I only need a little extension and don't want to spend the energy doubling over a rabbit runner (which isn't much effort).

- DMM Wallnuts: 1-11
Sure, or any nut on sale or used. Would prefer the DMM offsets ~50

- Camp Evo Tricams: .25, .5, 1, 1.5
Sure, and available used on here all the time. learn how to place them well. From 50 set, used.

- BD C4s: 1, 2, 3
Good cams, highly available on here for ~35$ each

- BD Z4s (on release): .3, .4, .5, .75

Get the Ultra Light mastercams to start out on small cams, they're cheap, proven.
Or small totems from Marco. Or used whatever is out here $300

- Camp Ball Nuts: 2, 3, 4, 5

Really not beginner stuff

- Kong Gipsy: 2

Fuck no

- (Rack Carabiners): Camp Dyons

They're fine. Just get some cheap biners.

I rate your rack a D and I just saved you a bunch of money, you're welcome.

Skip the tricams, the ball nuts, and the gipsies. You'll regret those purchases and your money is best spent on other gear.