Another shoe question: air pockets vs toes scrunched to oblivion? Scarpa FZ Last

Hello friends.
I need some help figuring out the best size for my shoe.

A tale of two shoes:

I have a 43.5 Scarpa Furia that fits me GREAT in the toebox, and my foot feels super snug and stuff, but there are slight pockets of air in the shoe. Mainly in the toebox and especially in the heel. I must have a lower volume heel, but I've also heard other people complain about this with Scarpa's FZ last.

I recently purchased a 43 Scarpa Booster S, hoping to eliminate the air pockets, and it does. With my feet up in the air, there are no dead spots, and very little heel bag. Problem is, I feel like my toes are curled to point straight down, instead of pointing slightly forward at what I feel is an optimal 45 degree angle. And when I pull my feet out, it's clear that my toe pads are touching the front of my foot pad.

Now to me, it seems clear that I need to go back to the 43.5 size and just deal with the air pockets (my first shoe was a 44.5 Booster S, and I never felt too out of sorts), but is there anyone with a differing opinion? If the upper was leather, I might be inclined to risk the smaller size and hope they stretch, but it's synthetic.

Thanks ya'll for putting up with yet another shoe question.

Sounds like they just don’t fit. The only shoes I’ve found that fit my low volume heel are women’s hiangles, women’s solutions, maverinks, and women’s scarpa origins.

Not gonna lie...I've been letting my wallet make most of my purchasing decisions so far.

I was able to get all of the scarpas for less than $90, and I'm just...really into a good deal. Also, I really like all their shoes. A little air is the only problem.

To be fair, the 43.5 Furias feel like they fit great for the most part. I almost feel like I don't need the velcro straps. I mean, there are air pockets, but I don't feel like my heel is gonna slip out; they just move a bit on hard heel hooks. And like I said, the toe box feels great.
I just, sometimes do shoe farts when I land forcefully.

I mean...I've never felt them wanting. Am I missing out? Does a perfect shoe exist? I just assumed that all shoes would have some fit issues, and that my Furias were as close as I'd get. 

I will definitely be looking into La Sportivas, though. I have heard that they're generally lower volume, but again, price has been a barrier.

All fine and good but take it from me who climbed with too tight of shoes for many years...DONT GO TOO TIGHT. Or you may have toe issues like myself in the future. 

You can't generalize brands, they all have a variety of lasts. Skwama is medium volume, kataki is very low volume, testarossa lacing means it fits any volume. Python (original) was actually high volume but with a really narrow egyptian toe box pattern.
Scarpa is similar, the chimera fits a much broader and higher volume foot than the instinct VS for example.

Ok all that said, I personally have also felt differences in the Scarpa models even within the FZ last. I own the chimera and drago in a 41, the drago has more of a "knuckle" to the big toe, broader shape for a little bit more splay to the little toes than the Drago has. Drago has the tiniest bit of dead space under the ball of the foot, but nothing in the toe box itself. Also despite some slight dead space at the heel the things are heel hooking machines, with no stiffener in the heel cup I can really get them to deform to crystals and edges well. When I say slight dead space I do mean *slight*, as in no fart noise ever, we are talking not a painted on fit.

The perfect fit shoe might exist for your foot, but it likely won't be the shoe you want for every situation/rock type. A 40 in the original testarossa fits me like they made a mold of my foot, but it can't toe hook and it's a bit stiff for the more smearing intensive routes. I only wear them for edging type routes and find myself in chimeras about half the time on ropes and dragos nearly all the time bouldering/gym.

I would bump back up to a 43.5 in the booster S, I've done the straight down toe knuckle fit you describe in a pair of testarossas and you really can't smear/smedge worth a damn when you get a fit that's equivalent to foot binding. 

I recommend going to at least two shops (for different brands) and trying on as many shoes as you can. There's a lot of variability in shape and the only way to know what works is trying them on. Shoe charts (Sportiva,  Scarpa) may be a good starting point but only tell part of the story. For my most recent pair I shopped around and out of ~20 models, only two fit well. Also, I only climb 5.11 in the gym so YMMV but I'd rather have a small gap than deal with the long-term effects of toe pain.

That to me is a sure sign of a bad fit.  You might try Five Ten; they tend to fit narrower, but with blunter toeboxes (less pointy).

That's so weird...given their same last, and outwardly similar randing, I would have assumed the Drago and Chimera would fit like the same shoe with different closures. I've always heard of variability in the heels between FZ last shoes, but this is new info to me!

Right now, I'm still fairly new to climbing (gym V4-ish), been mostly bouldering so I have time to grow my quiver (i'm thinking of replacing the XS Grip2 on my old oversized booster S's with XS Edge for sport routes), but thanks for giving me some solid fit deets.

Because of mainly financial constraints, i'll stick with my $70 Booster S's (exchange for 43.5), but may one day try Sportiva's. 

Nick Drake wrote: You can't generalize brands, they all have a variety of lasts. Skwama is medium volume, kataki is very low volume, testarossa lacing means it fits any volume. Python (original) was actually high volume but with a really narrow egyptian toe box pattern.
Scarpa is similar, the chimera fits a much broader and higher volume foot than the instinct VS for example.

Ok all that said, I personally have also felt differences in the Scarpa models even within the FZ last. I own the chimera and drago in a 41, the drago has more of a "knuckle" to the big toe, broader shape for a little bit more splay to the little toes than the Drago has. Drago has the tiniest bit of dead space under the ball of the foot, but nothing in the toe box itself. Also despite some slight dead space at the heel the things are heel hooking machines, with no stiffener in the heel cup I can really get them to deform to crystals and edges well. When I say slight dead space I do mean *slight*, as in no fart noise ever, we are talking not a painted on fit.

The perfect fit shoe might exist for your foot, but it likely won't be the shoe you want for every situation/rock type. A 40 in the original testarossa fits me like they made a mold of my foot, but it can't toe hook and it's a bit stiff for the more smearing intensive routes. I only wear them for edging type routes and find myself in chimeras about half the time on ropes and dragos nearly all the time bouldering/gym.

I would bump back up to a 43.5 in the booster S, I've done the straight down toe knuckle fit you describe in a pair of testarossas and you really can't smear/smedge worth a damn when you get a fit that's equivalent to foot binding.

I wouldn't do xs edge on the booster, with how much of a downturn that shoe has you won't be able to smear worth a damn in them. It's best suited on mild downcamber to flat shoes like the vapor, instinct, kataki, etc.. All my sport shoes, even for hard edging, are grip 2. 

caughtinside wrote:

Dunno, I don't think the booster is very downturned, I don't think going from grip2 to xs edge will affect it much. Plus, if its mostly gym climbing it doesn't matter, and xs edge will last longer

There is a pretty significant difference between the instinct vs and vsr with edge and grip2. Personally hate edge for plastic as well, tried out the VS for a bit looking for more mileage on ARC type sesssions, went back to grip. A newer climber likely won't notice the difference so I guess my point is rather moot :)

Agreed.  Edge feels downright slick on plastic compared to C4 or grip2, but it’s great outdoors.

I don't have a huge amount of experience with scarpa, but you could try the Dragos in a smaller size than the furias. I know their last is the same, but I have heard overall the dragos fit slightly wider in the toebox than the furias (feel free to correct me if I am wrong, I wouldn't want to be misinforming anyone in the future). Then you could get a tighter heel fit with less all around pressure on your toes.
On another note, it may be worth looking into the Women's Futuras. They definitely have a good toe profile with a snug, LV heel.

Hard to swallow pill: if you don't climb 5.12 or higher, then you don't need extremely tight shoes...its not the shoes limiting you - its technique.