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David Morgantini
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Nov 4, 2019
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London, United Kingdom
· Joined Jul 2014
· Points: 5
Hey folks,
I'm getting myself into a bolting project on a conglomerate crag not far from my house. The conglomerate is mixed quality, but basically you'd describe it as a very fine conglomerate (small pebbles, mostly sandstone matrix) but pretty darn hard overall (I can chip it with some hammer blows, but takes some effort). Just for context, I drilled about 9 holes in the rock and my drill bit is starting to dull (I don't have enough experience to know if this is actually a decent measure of rock hardness). Unfortunately, there is a layer of exfoliating crap over the top of the crag which I've had to peel off to find the solid rock underneath. This means that there are sections of the climbing where the rock may not be solid extremely deep even if it taps well and I'd like to use glue-ins to make sure that I add bonding to the rock so any imperfections are handled well. There are areas where the rock is clearly pretty bomber though, especially near the top of the cliff where the anchors are. Would it be insane to use expansion bolts (I'm using temporary sleeve bolts right now for TR anchors) for the top and glue-ins for the business bolts?
I guess the reason I'm asking is that I can't remember ever seeing anybody do this even though I've climbed in quite a few areas around the world over quite a bit of time.
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Sam Skovgaard
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Nov 4, 2019
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Port Angeles, WA
· Joined Oct 2017
· Points: 208
I assume you mean doing glue-in type bolts (like the wave bolt) and not sticking glue in with a mechanical bolt (don't do that).
I guess as long as each individual bolt is good, there's nothing unsafe about a mix-and-match approach, though it doesn't make much sense in the long term.
If you're going to go to the trouble of doing some glue-ins, then just do all of them as glue ins. Otherwise, down the road you will have half your route due for hardware replacement and the other half with lots of usable life left.
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David Gibbs
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Nov 4, 2019
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Ottawa, ON
· Joined Aug 2010
· Points: 2
I have seen climbs with a mixture of bolt types -- but it usually looks like it was either added (to help with old school run-outs) or replaced bolts, rather than an intentional decision to mix.
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C Williams
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Nov 4, 2019
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Sketchy, Blackvanistan
· Joined Jul 2013
· Points: 1,795
I've run into similar rock quality situations and found if some bolts need to be glueins you may as well use them exclusively. It's a bit of a hassle to carry two bolt types and then figure out which to use where.
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Ken Noyce
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Nov 4, 2019
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Layton, UT
· Joined Aug 2010
· Points: 2,658
I've seen many routes that are a mixture of glue-ins and mechanical bolts, but as has been mentioned up thread, they are almost always routes where some of the old mechanical bolts have been replaced with glue-ins later on. From a safety standpoint, there is no reason you couldn't mix types, but if you're going to be placing any glue-ins, you might as well just use them for everything.
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David Morgantini
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Nov 4, 2019
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London, United Kingdom
· Joined Jul 2014
· Points: 5
I was only thinking about the anchor because it also makes it easier to replace them as they wear (given that anchor bolts take the most wear)
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climber pat
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Nov 4, 2019
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Las Cruces NM
· Joined Feb 2006
· Points: 301
David Morgantini wrote: I was only thinking about the anchor because it also makes it easier to replace them as they wear (given that anchor bolts take the most wear) I recommend using glue in for the anchor with a quick link to a rappel ring or chain or whatever you want for the anchor. The key is that the part of the anchor that gets worn can be replaced by undoing the quick link.
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Drew Nevius
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Nov 4, 2019
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Tulsa, OK
· Joined Jun 2012
· Points: 2,638
I’ve intentionally used Fixe glue-ins with built in rap rings for anchors that are accessible from the top so that people can’t just lean over with a wrench and steal the hanger or quicklinks, and then used mechanical bolts for the lead bolts because they’re less hassle to place.
I’ve also seen when a whole route is being rebolted, people use mechanical bolts for the anchor so it can immediately be loaded, and then used glue-ins for the lead bolts since they’re longer lasting.
Either option is fine, as long as each bolt is good (as mentioned above)
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Taylor Spiegelberg
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Nov 6, 2019
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WY
· Joined May 2012
· Points: 1,686
I often use mechanical bolts for an anchor for the reason Drew mentioned above. Most of the time it's logistically so much easier. I'm never worried about hardware getting stolen. If I do use a mechanical bolt, I make sure it's a good one such as the 1/2" SS power bolts. Wedge bolts would be a bad choice as they require upkeep, something glue in's do not. Not that a five piece doesn't, but in my experience, they don't need to be tightened nearly as often as power bolts.
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