BD gets rid of hoodwire

News from weighmyrack- see quote below. Pretty pathetic imo. Only major manufacturer without a snagfree wiregate...

"By 2020 Black Diamond will carry no snag-free wiregate carabiners (they’ve already stopped manufacturing the Oz, Hoodwire, and Livewire). When we asked why, Black Diamond said that it was a manufacturing nightmare and that it was more complicated than just needing to raise prices. Recently Black Diamond moved factories and it’s likely (pure speculation here) that this would have been a hard product for the new factory to make and no consumer wanted to see a large price increases so BD cut their losses. "

And I’m still bummed that C3s were discontinued.

Well, it's a good move as they'll be selling a line of overpriced shoes to more than make up the $. Think about it, everyone (even gym climbers) buys shoes all the time, how many biners does one buy annually?  Thanks for the heads up though.

Based on the patent linked about halfway down p1 of the thread below, they'll have a replacement shortly that is similar to the Camp Dyon.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/117332551/black-diamond-oz-carabiners-discontinued

Billcoe wrote: Well, it's a good move as they'll be selling a line of overpriced shoes to more than make up the $. Think about it, everyone (even gym climbers) buys shoes all the time, how many biners does one buy annually?  Thanks for the heads up though.

No one buys their shoes.

I heard a rumor that supports weighmyrack's theory that the new factory can't do it for the right price. 

Philip Magistro wrote: Based on the patent linked about halfway down p1 of the thread below, they'll have a replacement shortly that is similar to the Camp Dyon.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/117332551/black-diamond-oz-carabiners-discontinued

When Dyon biners can be had for $8 each (on sale), I fail to understand why anyone would want a hoodwire with a wide nose that you have to struggle to fit through half the anchor chains in existence. The Dyon will fit into anything, anywhere, anytime, with no muss, no fuss. Also makes a great racking biner, fwiw.

caughtinside wrote: Those hood wires were an inelegant solution to make a snag free nose. Good riddance.
why did they stop making positrons?

Inelegant?  Maybe.

caughtinside wrote: Those hood wires were an inelegant solution to make a snag free nose. Good riddance.
why did they stop making positrons?

I actually really like the hoodwires for rope-end clipping. I don’t recall why I had them, I don’t have them on all my draws, must have been a good deal/sale price when replacing some worn biners. Or maybe Ed got them, now that I think of it... But they feel really good clipping, so much so that I’m considering buying some right now, before they go away for good.  

Another massively poor decision by BD? Not even surprised anymore

I have some, but never liked the Hoodwires anyway. 

I'll only fall for a 'Dirty Nosed' carabiner once. There's no way I'd ever buy another one. I'm really curious if the BD pro climbers will ever use the new non-clean nose biners. Highly doubtful. DMM Alpha Light for the win.

I disembarked from the BD fanboat with their poor handling of that crampon scandal a few years ago. That being said, I just bought a whippet and I’m looking forward to seeing the new z4’s. like others have said on the whole, BD has lost the cutting edge. 

mpech wrote: News from weighmyrack- see quote below. Pretty pathetic imo. Only major manufacturer without a snagfree wiregate...

"By 2020 Black Diamond will carry no snag-free wiregate carabiners (they’ve already stopped manufacturing the Oz, Hoodwire, and Livewire). When we asked why, Black Diamond said that it was a manufacturing nightmare and that it was more complicated than just needing to raise prices. Recently Black Diamond moved factories and it’s likely (pure speculation here) that this would have been a hard product for the new factory to make and no consumer wanted to see a large price increases so BD cut their losses. "

So F the customer we just want to get paid.  The corporate overlords of commerce have spoken.

Ma Ja wrote: DMM Alpha Light for the win.

The Alpha Light has been retired, so buy them up while they're still around if you really like them. The Chimera is more-or-less its replacement, but is slightly smaller and lighter. The Chimera is basically a Phantom with a "clean" nose.

Alpha light is nice but I just can't find a better combo than Dyon (bolt end)/Alpha sport (rope end). Might sacrifice a few grams of savings but I have yet to find a biner that clips a rope easier than the alpha sport, and those Dyons just can't be beat...just cost a few more bucks.

Christian Hesch wrote: Alpha light is nice but I just can't find a better combo than Dyon (bolt end)/Alpha sport (rope end). Might sacrifice a few grams of savings but I have yet to find a biner that clips a rope easier than the alpha sport, and those Dyons just can't be beat...just cost a few more bucks.

Alpha Sport is by far my favorite clipping biner, but I was mainly talking wire gates with a clean nose for trad and alpine use.

caughtinside wrote:

I don’t think they have made the best biners in over 15 years. They’ve always done a good job marketing and branding though.  I think their domination of the cam market really drives the rest of their stuff though. Their biners, harnesses, ropes and shoes are all below the top standard. 

I like their harnesses and ropes. Harnesses may not quite be up to Arcteryx standard but are substantially cheaper. Ropes are very nice. But yeah, I stopped buying their biners a long time ago.

I have been through a ton of biners to see which ones I actually like best. DMM does a great job with the Alpha, but my favorite is the Camp Dyon.  My racking biners for my first set of  C4's are all Dyons, and for my doubles are neutrino's (already owned them).  

Dyon's have a really slim nose profile, you can snag a nut wire inside of a thin crack much easier than any other biner. So I have a few on alpine draws just for extending nut placements.

I never really took a liking to the Hoodwire, it seemed to embody the worst characteristics, small size with a fat nose...

I think the more important note here is with hoodwire tech gone they're going to quit making the livewire draws. That's the only good carabiner in their line up, rivals the spirits for nice sport draws.

I have a few OZ still, used them on alpine draws and got sick of not being able to clip old pins/homemade hangers. The hoodwire I never really got, same size that was a little small to handle and relatively heavy for the size. 

Nick Drake wrote: I think the more important note here is with hoodwire tech gone they're going to quit making the livewire draws. That's the only good carabiner in their line up, rivals the spirits for nice sport draws.

I have a few OZ still, used them on alpine draws and got sick of not being able to clip old pins/homemade hangers. The hoodwire I never really got, same size that was a little small to handle and relatively heavy for the size. 

I have about a dozen livewires on the rope end of some sport draws. They are good, solid carabiners. Easy to clip, good action on the gate. But I bought 15 DMM sport draws, and they are even better, butter smooth with a really nice gate to clip.