Best technique for off fingers cracks, stacks or ringlocks?

I have never really trusted a ring lock in an off finger crack, what am I dong wrong?  Stacks feel so much more secure to me.

I'm the completely opposite. While ring locks feel horrible and I've only recently learned to use them decently, they still feel way more secure than stacks to me. I'll throw in the caveat that I can only trust the ring lock if there's at least a minor constriction. Given that, I adjust what part of my index finger is lying across the thumbnail until it just barely slots in, nice and painful like. Now... how do you get finger stacks to feel secure???

Andrew G wrote: I'm the completely opposite. While ring locks feel horrible and I've only recently learned to use them decently, they still feel way more secure than stacks to me. I'll throw in the caveat that I can only trust the ring lock if there's at least a minor constriction. Given that, I adjust what part of my index finger is lying across the thumbnail until it just barely slots in, nice and painful like. Now... how do you get finger stacks to feel secure???

I don't know if "secure" is the best descriptor, but I know what will hold and what won't...25 years experience I guess.  

Rings always feel like they are going to blow, and I don't feel inspired to make big moves off of them...stacks, if you don't change the orientation, seem more secure to me.  I have small-ish hands but thick fingers.

I feel like ratchets (stacks) and ringlocks work in slightly different sizes.  Ratchets are more for the wider side (when you JUST can’t fit your hands in) whereas ringlocks are on the narrower range right before good fingers.

Ted Pinson wrote: I feel like ratchets (stacks) and ringlocks work in slightly different sizes.  Ratchets are more for the wider side (when you JUST can’t fit your hands in) whereas ringlocks are on the narrower range right before good fingers.

That's the part that gets me. I can still jam a tipped out #1 crack, and switch between cammed finger stacks and thin hands. The next size lower, purple .5, I struggle with if it is parallel sided.  If there is any constriction, my big knuckles will catch inside of and it becomes good fingers. 

IIRC, Celebration, if you don't layback it, is wide fingers for me...see below lower portion of crack. Try to climb without lie backing....

Buck Rio wrote: I have never really trusted a ring lock in an off finger crack, what am I dong wrong?  Stacks feel so much more secure to me.

The single best advice I've heard on ringlock was from Tom Randall - it's supposed to feel like someone is biting real hard on your thumb. It was a revelation and all of a sudden I was able to do bomber ringlocks (as long as I'm not pumped). 

Xi Yin wrote:

The single best advice I've heard on ringlock was from Tom Randall - it's supposed to feel like someone is biting real hard on your thumb. It was a revelation and all of a sudden I was able to do bomber ringlocks (as long as I'm not pumped). 

So if my thumbs hurt for 2 days afterward, that means I'm doing it right??

Andrew G wrote:

So if my thumbs hurt for 2 days afterward, that means I'm doing it right??

Did it? I think the thumb can take quite a lot of pressure and will turn out just fine. A bit of soreness the day after is normal.

Buck Rio wrote:

That's the part that gets me. I can still jam a tipped out #1 crack, and switch between cammed finger stacks and thin hands. The next size lower, purple .5, I struggle with if it is parallel sided.  If there is any constriction, my big knuckles will catch inside of and it becomes good fingers. 

IIRC, Celebration, if you don't layback it, is wide fingers for me...see below lower portion of crack. Try to climb without lie backing....

Funny, this is the exact sequence that first popped to mind when I read the title. I much prefer stacking, but I think I had to do a ringlock to get through the crux; I felt pretty insecure as well.

My thumbprint stopped working on my iPhone after an epic 4 days of what felt like non-stop ring locks.  I think maybe that's what Tom Randall was talking about :)

Can someone illustrate the difference between these?

Andrew G wrote:

So if my thumbs hurt for 2 days afterward, that means I'm doing it right??

Bingo!

My advice to everyone learning crack technique: "If it hurts, you're doing it right"

Regardless of whether you’re ring-locking, stacking or ratcheting, after you fiddle your jam into the crack, don’t move your elbow. Keep that whole section of your arm stable and still. And usually low. If you pull your elbow you’ll blow the jam.

Climb safe,
Mal

Use physics to your advantage: For both ring locks (aka, thumb stacks) and ratchets; envision your thumb as an upward wedge which is passive, and your fingers as a downward active wedge (like a nut) which you pull down on jamming against your thumb. Also, for ring locks and slightly for rachets, use a torqueing action (applied by rotating your elbow down) which locks in the jamb. Depending on the situation, sometimes the holding force will be from one or the other action, or sometimes from both. See: fixedpin.com/products/the-c…, pages 32 and 33. At first it feels insecure and improbable, then after playing around with variations it will suddenly click.

The nomenclature for these techniques is all over the road.  I like the name "thumb stacks" or "finger-thumb stacks" because it describes what your hand is actually doing: spanning your thumb across the crack and stacking your fingers on top.

How are you guys defining ring locks and ratchets?

Sam Skovgaard wrote: The nomenclature for these techniques is all over the road.  I like the name "thumb stacks" or "finger-thumb stacks" because it describes what your hand is actually doing: spanning your thumb across the crack and stacking your fingers on top.

How are you guys defining ring locks and ratchets?

This is how I've known it to be defined.

lackhead.org/jamming/

I agree that the nomenclature is inconsistent and, like you, I prefer “finger/thumb stacks” which is the most descriptive term. Most of the terms I’ve heard used (ring locks, thumb stacks, butterflies, thumb cams, etc.) are different names for finger/thumb stacks, although sometimes you have to interpret the intent from the context. For me, a finger/thumb stack primarily uses the first digit of your thumb and first two digits of your fingers; in contrast to ratchets which use the second and sometimes third digit of your thumb, and third digit of your fingers. However, these are the extreme ends of the spectrum and often the jam is a transition/hybrid rather than one or the other. Similar principles of opposition wedges and torque/leverage apply to both.

​You call them "stacky thumb finger bongos"? I'd have called them Chazwazzas.​​​

Sam Skovgaard wrote: The nomenclature for these techniques is all over the road.  I like the name "thumb stacks" or "finger-thumb stacks" because it describes what your hand is actually doing: spanning your thumb across the crack and stacking your fingers on top.

How are you guys defining ring locks and ratchets?

Ring locks, for me, are what you describe as finger thumb stacks. Pressure from your two fingers and  thumb wedge into the crack. 

Finger "Stacks" or "ratchets" do not employ the use of the wedged thumb. 

A straight up finger crack wouldn't' even need the ratchet/stacked finger or ringlock.  

The in-between nature of that size crack is what makes them so devious. Most cracks vary enough in width that you never have to rely entirely on one technique, but will employ all of them.

My limited understanding of the difference between ring locks and stacks are where the pressure falls and utility.  Ring locks seem highly specific to certain size crack and put more pressure on the outside of the index and ring finger.  Whereas, stacks are more versatile and rely on the the pressure of the thumb wedged against the walls of the crack and the downward force of the fingers. Please correct me on this one, if am wrong?! ( Kent, love your book! I referenced it right before trying a climb called fat fingers for this very reason recently.  Unfortunately,  I still sucked on the route- no fault of yours!)