Scarpa Phantom Tech fitment

To keep, or not, to upsize? - that! is the question.  Currently stuck in flatland hell until Feb, when I can go back to home in the mountains. I'm a gear junkie (I have a problem, there - step 1 done). I did the holy unthinkable, I purchased some new (current iteration) Scarpa Phantom Tech boots. I should state that these are my first "technical" boot. I have some epic Sorel boots that have seen -55C - and did admirably. They are big, clunky, far from technical - but man are they comfortable and warm. I also have a few pairs of mukluks and overboots for when i'm feeling lazy. (I work at some of the more extreme latitudes).

I wear a street size of 44 in Scarpa - I know this because I'm a bit of a Scarpa whore (my wifes words). I have Approach boots, shoes, and rock shoes - all Scarpa, It was like they took a mold of my foot when they designed their size 44.

Now to the Phantom Tech - What a beautiful boot. It looks great. But so what, it NEEDS to perform first and foremost. It was kind of tricky to just get on - the structure, the bones of the boot are somewhat stiff - which translates into support. Once the foot is in the boot, the fit feels very close to home. I can wiggle my toes, and if I push my foot forward I can sneak my finger behind my heal. I have a 30 day return window, and I'm curious - is this fit right - or is the lack of experience showing? In a perfect world I would just run up to the mountaineer in Keene, but - I have been given such an absolute deal, that the savings is totally worth the pain in the butt it would be to return/exchange.

I'm actually sitting here wearing the boots trying to feel them out - how weird is that? My concern is the boot does exert some slight pressure on the upper forefoot area, just aft of the toes. This is uniform on both boots - and I wonder if there is some support built into the boot keeping the foot in place.

Like I said - it's a bit tricky to get into these boots, but once they are in, they feel very molded - and after being laced up, the feeling is very supporting, the foot doesn't move when walking (except for very slight heel lift, which I believe is expected on a new boot).

Long story short, for those of you out there, am I describing typical new technical boot fit? I see some people go up half a size, but I don't want my foot moving around on steep slopes. How do these boots break in compared to other boots (technical mountaineering)? They are very rigid, and I really can't wait to see how these perform, Thinking the trap dike in upstate, NY is gonna be the inaugural test. 

Take the liner out and replace it with a Superfeet and see how it feels. How does it feel with a slightly thicker sock?

FWIW all of my Scarpa boots have a Superfeet liner.

I like 1/2 size up over steet shoe. I have the previous version (like the one still shown on almost every website) and I could try on all sizes and went back on forth forever because street felt snug and kind of good, but in a boot I will be in all day, I knew my feet would swell. I have two seasons in my pair and they really haven't stretched at all so I am happy with my sizing. I feel the same way about Ribelle Techs ODs = 1/2 size up.

Your pair will probably feel good when climbing but when you are hobbling down that gawd awful rocky trail from Avalanche Lake, you will probably wish you went bigger.

Allen, with a larger sock it's starting to feel too tight around the forefoot.

Doug, I'm starting to think the same. I don't want to take more than one boot. Although i'm worried about the approach (ok so maybe I take approach boots, but damn if I want to avoid that for the sake of weight) - these boots are so stiff that I can see that being murder.

I'm starting to wonder if a double like the g2sm/phantom 6000 would be a bit more versatile - at the slight loss in climbing performance. I'm not "chasing waterfalls" - I want to tackle technical peaks, steep grades with the occasional vertical, but lots of walking in crampons in cold-humid places. Mt Washington to Mt Shasta in winter. Just wearing and walking around my flat in the boots - my feet tell me these things are gonna hurt until somewhat broken in, and i'm slightly concerned that the constriction in the forefoot may lead to less circulation around the toes.

To maybe help, I am planning on mostly day trips, but with occasional overnights (makes me wonder if the double is a better call). 

If it is starting too feel too tight then it probably is too tight especially as feet do tend to swell at altitude. I have the P6000 and a couple of years ago spent 4 days in them on Rainier. The first half day was spent walking up a dirt trail before we got to snow. All snow after that with 2 days in crampons. They were fit but a bit more wear on the inner boot than I expected. I have taken my PT on similar trips. They too were fine for the half day of trail walking. 

My techs are a full euro size up from street shoe (compared to approach shoes from scarpa). I have an aftermarket insole to get the volume right (not superfeet, can't remember which brand off the top of my head). I shaved off some of the padding under the toes to keep volume up there. With a medium sock and vbl/thin liner combo this gives a secure fit with no heel lift or slop in the forefoot, but a good amount of room for toes to wiggle. I've had frostnip twice, so keeping toes warm is a larger priority than "performance" fit.

This fit was comfortable all day out of the box.

You guys rock - I shipped the 44s back and have 44.5s on the way. Hopefully I sized up enough, but if not - I’ll go all the way to 45. A slow process but worth it for the fit.

I’ve also had cold injuries and do not have any desire to do any more damage.

My idea is a thermasilk liner, vbl, Smartwool phd pro ski sock - I'll see how it fits with the insole, but already I'm thinking about upgrading to a slightly improved set up - anyone have any experience with the superfeet redhot?

For insole, I went to a Sole brand black insole. I have Superfeet in all my other shoes and boots.

My favorite boot EVER is the Scarpa Mt Blanc Pro. My street shoe size is 10.5 which equates to EU 44; that’s the size of my MBP boots. Two seasons ago I bought Phantom Techs and went with a size 44.5. I fit them wearing only the Smartwool Mountaineering sock (which I also love). If needed I can add a second thin wool sock, but I’ve never been so cold that I’ve felt the need.

Yes, the PTs are stiff, but that’s what we need for technical ice. I just loosen the laces a bit for the approach. I routinely do a climb near home that involves a 1.5 mile approach and I have no complaints; like my MBPs the boots are just comfortable.

A key element (for me) in determining the size is to kick the toe to mimic ice climbing and making sure there is ZERO contact between toes and boot. Any contact is a recipe for disaster!

Awesome boots. Climb on!

I am an exact 9.0 US shoe size and I've ordered two pair, the 43 and the 43.5 of the new Phantom Techs. I went climbing in the 43 today and never hit my toes while actually climbing. I did sit there kicking the ice as hard as I possibly could later and did manage to hit my toe on the front of the toebox once. I have a single index finger space in the heel.

I took them home and compared them to the Salewas they are replacing and there is more room In the phantom techs when using the index finger measurement method, yet I've never hit the front of the toebox in the Salewas.  In the past when I had scarpa boots (rebel pro) I had 43.5. These seem more roomy to be sure, though it seems to be a volume thing (at least for my foot). I'm interested to try the insoles listed on here and see how the boots fit.

it's possible the length was good, and my issue was certainly volume related. based on how they felt, and wanting to push these boots to the older end of their design, adding the extra room for internal insulation and improved fit (hopefully) will meet my needs. Because this version is based on a new last, and different materials, it may take some time for good sizing info to propagate the masses.

So to update, I purchased some Sole performance thick insoles today and brought them home. I pulled out the insoles on the 43 and 43.5s and now I'm faced with a dilemma. Both pairs of boots seem like they will work out. If I sit and really kick the hell out of my curb at home, I can just barely touch the front of the toebox of the 43s. In the 43.5s I cannot. The heel fit is ever so slightly better in the 43s. I feel like it will be impossible to choose one over the other.

I feel that the insoles are pretty valuable for getting a better fit with this last. 

I just bought a pair of these as well. I'm deciding between 42 and 42.5. My running shoe size is 8.5 (41.5). I have custom orthotics with very high arches. Going half size up is perfect for length. I do that or more with all hiking/climbing boots and never regretted it. The new PT's are very low volume and I'm assuming it is by design (sock fit). I find the 42's to be perfect length but really snug around the forefoot like you mentioned. Besides my orthotics i wear a thicker smart wool sock. I am going to walk around outside for 30 minutes a little later to see if they start to 'pack in' a little. I went with 42.5 in the new tech OD's this summer.(awesome general mountaineering boot btw). They seemed to fit a tad shorter and i didn't regret that decision. Like you said, the smaller of the 2 had no heel lift but there is a little with the 42.5's. Main concern for me is blood circulation and cold feet. Climbing in -39C last winter has made me sensitive to that issue. Ha ha. I will post again later tonight or tomorrow to let you know how the walk went. 

On the topic of footbeds....the factory foot bed of this boot is great but I need orthotics unfortunately. The factory insole is actually quite thick in the forefoot and even has an aerogel insert! SOL brand has the highest arch supports available without going custom. Orange super feet have the most cushion from that brand as does their newer (hiking specific version but can't recall the name). I never use factory foot beds, even when I didn't use a custom orthotic. Hope that helps with that decision.

I might need to switch to an insole with a lower arch. We shall see. I have just normal arches, but need the volume reduced. Standing still they feel fine but walking feels like there is excess pressure on my arch area. I've put them in the oven and fitted them but there is still pressure in the arch area. I'm just not sure what is normal and wear in and what is not normal. I might stick with what I have and see if it wears in with time. For now I'm going to wear the 43s and climb a bit more in them. 

steven black wrote: On the topic of footbeds....the factory foot bed of this boot is great but I need orthotics unfortunately. The factory insole is actually quite thick in the forefoot and even has an aerogel insert! SOL brand has the highest arch supports available without going custom. Orange super feet have the most cushion from that brand as does their newer (hiking specific version but can't recall the name). I never use factory foot beds, even when I didn't use a custom orthotic. Hope that helps with that decision.

Huh, i thought the factory insole felt cheap and flimsy.   I fit mine with my usual lowish arch light blue super feet.  I wear a 9 street shoe, 41.5 climbing shoes and I think the 42s are for me.

These shoes definitely have a lower volume at the forefoot than I was expecting - the sock fit is a little too cozy. Hopefully going up have an EU size, and potentially some super feet gives me the Goldilocks size I need.

AlpineIce wrote: 2016 Phantom Tech vs. 2019 Phantom Tech Comparison and review.

I really appreciate the review on this as I've been eyeing these since they were announced. Sorry to hijack the thread with warmth, how do these compare to the Mont Blanc pro's? Those are my current ice boot but due to some new nerve damage they're no longer warm enough but I'm not sure I want to step up to a double boot for ice.

Blake Bolton wrote:

I really appreciate the review on this as I've been eyeing these since they were announced. Sorry to hijack the thread with warmth, how do these compare to the Mont Blanc pro's? Those are my current ice boot but due to some new nerve damage they're no longer warm enough but I'm not sure I want to step up to a double boot for ice.

The census is that any "super gator" boot like the Phantom Tech or La Sportiva G5  will be warmer than a traditional boot like the Mont Blanc Pro or Nepal.  Scarpa's using AeroGel in the new Techs this year, which is supposedly very light and retains radiant body heat better than anything used prior.  Apparently, AeroGel was developed by NASA for use in astronaut's spacesuits.  I have no practical experience with AeroGel, so I can't confirm the marketing hype.    

Great news everyone! The new size 44.5 PT's arrived today, and they are everything I was hoping for and more! The fit is wonderful with thick and thin socks. Its amazing what half a size can do, going bigger per Scarpa's sizing recommendation (at least for my foot size and shape) is spot on.

I fit a pair of BD Snaggletooth crampons with no issue. Top Tip - A camp universal piton used as a wedge works wonders to massage the front toe bail into a new position.

I believe Scarpa is using carbon fiber & Aerogel - which is some truly fascinating stuff. Super light weight, low density matrix which doesn't transmit heat well (great for insulation).

Blake Bolton wrote:

I really appreciate the review on this as I've been eyeing these since they were announced. Sorry to hijack the thread with warmth, how do these compare to the Mont Blanc pro's? Those are my current ice boot but due to some new nerve damage they're no longer warm enough but I'm not sure I want to step up to a double boot for ice.

Blake, the Techs are much warmer than the MBPs. Ice climbing (with an hour approach in snow over my ankles) led to frost nip in the MBPs. That was one of the reasons I bought the Techs. The main reason was improved performance on steep ice. For most alpine snow or neve’ my set up is the MBPs and BD Sabertooths. For winter ice, Techs and Lynx crampons. I love both pair of boots. If I have a long approach with the Techs I loosen the laces above the ankle. Hope this helps.