Rope washing, how clean is clean enough?

Billcoe wrote:

Uhhh, BIG CAUTION: getting ropes wet will cause them to shrink when they dry. What mfg recommends using high temperature to wash a rope? I'd like to see who that is. I once had one shrink @30 feet in one year (it was a Maxim) mostly from getting it wet outside while climbing, not from washing (live in a wet area).  Wonder if high temp water will speed that process up so that you wind up with a 50m rope.

Manufacturers wash them in hot as fuck water. Petzl does say 30C max, though.

F loyd wrote: 
The thing to remember with any washing machine is it has a ton of residual soap and softener and potentially heavy cleaners left inside of it after use.

Manufacturers tell you how to wash your rope in a machine. It's not like that.

I know that shooting the shit over climbing technical knowledge is a good past time, but if you browse through the websites for the actual ropes (or any gear) you can get real information from people who don't want to be sued because you ate dirt through your spine on their advice.

"Gear Guy" to the rescue

Relevant snipping -

 “Climbing ropes can and do shrink,” says Jim Ewing of Sterling Rope. “Nylon is a highly hydrophilic (readily absorbs water) and elastic material. Nylon yarns will change length with changes in moisture content as well as contaminants such as dirt. Nylon is also a plastic and ‘off gasses’ slowly over time as part of its normal aging process. The off gassing will, very slowly, dry out the nylon, causing it to shrink while also making it less elastic.”
Ewing further notes that you can restore some of a rope’s elasticity by soaking it in hot water (normal home tap hot-water temperatures)

The upper limit per code for hot water at home is 120F/49C

NegativeK wrote: Manufacturers tell you how to wash your rope in a machine. It's not like that.

I know that shooting the shit over climbing technical knowledge is a good past time, but if you browse through the websites for the actual ropes (or any gear) you can get real information from people who don't want to be sued because you ate dirt through your spine on their advice.

What? Mammut says use use a washing machine on "wool" setting. Many state using a washing machine to be ok. What part of what I said goes against that? 

F loyd wrote:

What? Mammut says use use a washing machine on "wool" setting. Many state using a washing machine to be ok. What part of what I said goes against that? 

Looks like I trimmed out 'You would have to run a ton of empty cycles to get it out, which no one does.'. Apologies.

Manufacturers don't tell you to run a ton of cycles.

Yeah should’ve asked for forgiveness not permission. Too late now.

I doubt stuff coming off a rope would stay in the washer. Do the rope then a load or two of your own clothes. Or go to a laundromat if you can’t convince your wife. 

I use a regular top load washer, daisy chain the rope, hot water, gentle cycle, and a smallish amount of woolite. Hang dry in the shade, then un daisy chain. Rinsing in a big amount of water while being gently agitated in a washer is going to get out way more soap than manually. Likewise with the washing it will be way cleaner. 

Most people use too much soap in the washer so I could see soap residue being left over. I use a little more than half the reccomened amount (for clothes towels etc) a little oxy clean and my clothes are clean and not still soapy after rinsing. so I’m not concerned about residual soap in my washer. 

You may have worn off some dry rope coating which makes it more smooth and slippery.

Washing may loosen the weave of the sheath so I use gentle cycle and don’t wash more than needed.  Basically I’ll wash after a trip that causes a lot of gunk on the rope or once or twice in the ropes life as my lead line.

Rope shrinkage related story:

I still own a Sterling 10.5 mm rope...yes it is a fatty.  Anyway, after climbing in the rain and not using a tarp, the thing was pretty nasty, so I washed in a washing machine.

 Go back weeks later and do a single rope rap on a climb I KNOW is 90 feet, and my fricken rope won't reach. It probably shrunk 10-12 feet, I had to swing and kind of let go uphill to make it down.

Cpn Dunsel wrote:

Nylon does not shrink from water but does shrink from aging.

My old, fat rope shrank in a hurry then...must have been saving it all up for one burst of implosion.

Why ropes shrink

Cpn Dunsel wrote:

Yes and some people claim to have seen the Virgin Mary.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/11/151113-virgin-mary-sightings-map/

Put it in a front loader with no soap to rinse off what you couldn’t in the tub. If you don’t own a washing machine and your wife won’t let you use hers, find someone who will. Or take it to a laundromat if you have to... I’m personally more comfortable knowing for sure what was in the machine right before my rope but that might be overly cautious.

If it matters, it’s not going to affect the washing machine in any way to wash a rope in it. They are designed to wash dirty things. 

I double then daisy chain mine. Throw them in a front-loader in a mesh bag. Then run with just a tiny bit of detergent. Always come out looking and feeling great. 

I stopped using a mesh bag. If you daisy chain it then it won't tangle, so I don't really see the point of the bag. The mesh bag seemed to just limit the amount of soapy water and then rinse water getting to the rope. And it throws of the balance of the machine for the spin cycle so it comes out wetter and takes longer to dry.

Glowering wrote: I stopped using a mesh bag. If you daisy chain it then it won't tangle, so I don't really see the point of the bag. The mesh bag seemed to just limit the amount of soapy water and then rinse water getting to the rope. And it throws of the balance of the machine for the spin cycle so it comes out wetter and takes longer to dry.

You must daisy chain better than me. 

Señor Arroz wrote:

You must daisy chain better than me. 

I hafta say, the new washer, top load sans agitator, did a great job. Just daisy chained, and stacked around the outside of the washer tub. It only undid a few feet of the chain, a d spun it dry enough to just drape on some furniture to dry.

So just make sure the person who does the laundry is a climber, when it's time to buy a new washer, lol!

Best, Helen

amarius wrote:

Do a loose daisy chain, go to coin operated laundromat, 

My concern with any commercial machine would be the residual harsh detergent and even, and more unsafely, bleach in the system. 

Edited to say, before I wash my ropes I run the “clean machine” cycle with the machine empty, hot water only.  
OP, my guess is if there is stiffness in the rope you still have residual soap. I’ve been washing ropes forever. They never get clean “looking” again but anything that would rub off on your hands does get removed. 
My protocol: front loading machine, tap cold water, nik wash brand rope wash, delicates cycle and extra rinse cycle. Air dry flaked in a single layer on a clean tile floor. I live in a place with almost no humidity and the rope fully dries in about two days, good as new. 

I burn my ropes after a week of climbing.

M Mobes wrote: I burn my ropes after a week of climbing.

^^Some people need to do that with their underwear after a climbing trip. ^^^

Thank you all for the information!!!!!  Ewing noted: "you can restore some of a rope’s elasticity by soaking it in hot water (normal home tap hot-water temperatures)". I didn't know this and appreciate learning something new. I've got a monster static,a Sterling 11.2 X 70  that has hardened up from use and would benefit from this.

To Glowering - "smallish amount of woolite." I use to use woolite too until I saw that it has crap in it that is harmful to Nylon. I only used a little bit which I diluted with water before I'd dump it in, but I don't use it any more.  Evidently they changed the formula in there somewhere so it no longer contains sulfuric acid, but I don't know when that was. Not sure if this chart below is still valid, check the 6th line down in the chart or preview this Black Diamond article: https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/qc-lab-acid-harness.html



To  Buck - I was just teasing about the wife you know. Always nice to have someone along for the ride that has a few more brain cells and can give good advice....at least that's what I have going over here:-) I got accused of breaking the last one. In the early days we always had these used top loaders that were near impervious to large loads and you could get for $50-$75 at the local Gospel Mission, but for whatever reason we now need new Bosch front loaders that cost over $1000 and we each do our own clothes. The difference being that I let mine go till I have a big pile and then I tend to overstuff the thing. The drive on the front loaders is fragile it turns out. at least the last one was.

I learned 1st hand of rope shrinkage and had a very similar experince you had. Did a climb one year with my Maxim rope (back then I only had 1 lead rope at a time cause they are all 11mm), come back the next year, same route, same rope, too short by 15 feet on each end.

Billcoe wrote:
To  Buck - I was just teasing about the wife you know. Always nice to have someone along for the ride that has a few more brain cells and can give good advice....at least that's what I have going over here:-) I got accused of breaking the last one. In the early days we always had these used top loaders that were near impervious to large loads and you could get for $50-$75 at the local Gospel Mission, but for whatever reason we now need new Bosch front loaders that cost over $1000 and we each do own own clothes. The difference being that I let mine go till I have a big pile and then I tend to overstuff the thing. The drive on the front loaders is fragile it turns out. at least the last one was.

I learned 1st hand of rope shrinkage and had a very similar experince you had. Did a climb one year with my Maxim rope (back then I only had 1 lead rope at a time cause they are all 11mm), come back the next year, same route, same rope, too short by 15 feet on each end.

Our last machine was a top of the line LG front loader, we didn't even get 10 years out of it, and there are only two people in the house. The dryer actually started on fire due to electrical malfunction. 

Our new machine combo (washer/dryer) is made by Speed Queen. They don't look like much, but are built to stand up to Laundromat level abuse. Very happy with them. The guys that did the install raved about how all of the engineering is simple and bomb-proof.  Wife is not a fan of the top loader because she is 5' tall and it is hard for her to get the stuff out of the washer.

Stock Pic from the interwebs, but exactly what we've got.

Buck Rio wrote:

Our last machine was a top of the line LG front loader, we didn't even get 10 years out of it, and there are only two people in the house. The dryer actually started on fire due to electrical malfunction. 

Our new machine combo (washer/dryer) is made by Speed Queen. They don't look like much, but are built to stand up to Laundromat level abuse. Very happy with them. The guys that did the install raved about how all of the engineering is simple and bomb-proof.  Wife is not a fan of the top loader because she is 5' tall and it is hard for her to get the stuff out of the washer.

Stock Pic from the interwebs, but exactly what we've got.

I got the lowest end speed queen washer and a Maytag 23” wide dryer plumbed for propane. I found some website from a appliance repair guy that ranked appliances for reliability, and these were his top choices.

OId Lady H wrote:

I got the lowest end speed queen washer and a Maytag 23” wide dryer plumbed for propane. I found some website from a appliance repair guy that ranked appliances for reliability, and these were his top choices.

If it was just me, I would have got the analog controls....wifey likes the electronic touchpad.  The guts of the machine are exactly the same.