Bolts and the trade war

My sources for hardware have gone up in the trade war... what are other folks doing to source bolts (powers studs/ sleeves) without the 25% traiff. I have some areas that need attention.

Contact your representatives and ask that they support impeachment.

I live in Nevada. I support impeachment, i have made my position known,

But where can I buy some bolts? 

https://www.confast.com/product-3-8-x-3-1-2-stainless-steel-wedge-anchor

Be sure to ask for the American made variety.  I've placed hundreds of these things.  So far, so good.

chris magness wrote: https://www.confast.com/product-3-8-x-3-1-2-stainless-steel-wedge-anchor

Be sure to ask for the American made variety.  I've placed hundreds of these things.  So far, so good.

The pullout rating on those suck!  

https://www.confast.com/wedge-anchor-technical-specifications

If you're going to spray numbers, at least compare apples to apples.

Pullout for any wedge anchor in a soft substrate sucks.  The rating you reference is minimal embedment in 2000 psi concrete:  kinda like San Rafael mud.
Sink a long wedge anchor into hard rock or 4000 psi concrete, and it'll perform much better.

Example:  granite could have a psi north of 20,000.  I'd expect a Thunderstud to perform at over 25kn in this scenario.

For wedge bolts just remember you want rolled threads rather than cut threads!

chris magness wrote: If you're going to spray numbers, at least compare apples to apples.

Pullout for any wedge anchor in a soft substrate sucks.  The rating you reference is minimal embedment in 2000 psi concrete:  kinda like San Rafael mud.
Sink a long wedge anchor into hard rock or 4000 psi concrete, and it'll perform much better.

Example:  granite could have a psi north of 20,000.  I'd expect a Thunderstud to perform at over 25kn in this scenario.

Yeah, 2000psi concrete? The lowest normally given grade is C20 (2900psi) and the test block used to certify bolts for climbing is C50 (7250psi).

Yes.  The pullout rating which Sandy references is for 2000 psi concrete, as per the manfacturer.

chris magness wrote: If you're going to spray numbers, at least compare apples to apples.

Ok.  Apples to apples or Confast to Hilti.
I will stand by my prior statement.

Sandy Crimp wrote: Ok.  Apples to apples or Confast to Hilti.
I will stand by my prior statement.

Sandy:  Just stop.  Really, stop.  You are why MP generally sucks these days.  It was once a good resource for climbers.  Now it's full of a bunch wannabe trolls looking for an argument who desperately need to get laid.

Look at those numbers again.  You circled tension (correct, pullout) strength for a 1/2 (read: HALF INCH) diameter bolt with 2 1/4 inches (read: TWO AND A QUARTER) of embedment.  So no, not apples to apples at all.

Look at Hilti's 3/8 bolt with 1 5/8 inch embedment.  Closer comparison.  While the Hilti performs better than the Confast, the numbers aren't shocking.  Frankly, I'm fine with a long-ass Confast in hard rock. In soft rock glue-ins are superior to any wedge-style anchor, no question.  Ultimately, if you have concern about any of these anchors, you should be installing Fixe or similar climbing specific bolts.

If you compare the shear strength of the two bolts, the numbers are virtually identical.  And that, arguably, is the most important figure.

One more note:  these figures that we're looking at aren't CE or UIAA or any other equivalent testing or certifying body.  They are based on manufacturer testing, which leaves room for subjectivity. Possible that Confast's numbers are more conservative than Hilti's.  See remark above concerning Fixe or similar hardware.

What point are you trying to prove?  OP asked a question, I gave an answer:  a reasonable (both cost and quality) American made bolt I've been installing and whipping on for a decade or so, MANY others too.

It seems to me that you're long overdue for a Physics 101 course at your local community college.  Or maybe you're still in 8th grade, because you certainly behave that way.  Good luck in high school next year, you might finally get the action you need.

Again, really, STOP.

chris magness wrote:

 Now it's full of a bunch wannabe trolls looking for an argument who desperately need to get laid.

Being misinformed or trolling is a sex-deficiency? The things I learn here...

Trade war?  Go ahead.  Buy your bolts from China.
Just let us know what routes your putting them in on.

FrankPS wrote:

Being misinformed or trolling is a sex-deficiency? The things I learn here...

No.. being informed has nothing to do with a sex deficiency.  Aggression and too much time on the internet do, and these are troll attributes.

chris magness wrote: 
What point are you trying to prove?  

I am not trolling.  You are defending the appropriateness of these substandard bolts by attacking my assumed sexual prowess and age.  

I am presenting DATA to make a coherent and valid point.  My point is these bolts are, perhaps, not a suitable alternative.  You are attacking me personally.  I showed no aggression; you did.  Who's the troll?

Confast V/S  Hilti  

Apples to Apples and In 3/8":

Pullout (at comparable depths at a comparable PSI):  1,223-lbs V/S 2,275-lbs (Hilti pullout/tension is 86% better!)

Tension/Pullout does matter.  If not, we would use rodstock instead of expansion bolts.  Not all routes are low angle slabs!

I realize hypocrisy of my analogy, which, I'm afraid caused you to read past the substance of my last post.

Enough tit-for-tat.  PM me your address and I'll send you a Thunderstud for your review.  Their machining is vastly superior to Simpson and Hilti, and was one of the only American made construction grade bolts I could source years back (above listed brands were China at the time), which is one of my criteria if I'm not using Fixe.

OP: happy to send you a bolt too.
Sandy, check out these figures, you may better understand where I'm coming from:

https://www.centuryproducts.net/products/hole-openers/rock-psi/

David Baltz wrote: Trade war?  Go ahead.  Buy your bolts from China.
Just let us know what routes your putting them in on.

I got an email. That all powers products (you know the most STANDARD BOLT EVER) would be going uo 25%...

If you have a problem with POWERS bolts quit climbing

I also prefer to use 1/2 studs even in hard rock for longevity and to simplify the bits i need. 1/2 rb  1/2 stud keeps it simple.

Plus incredibly bomber 

I recall an old data sheet for Thunderstuds tensile strength exceeding 25kn.  As these bolts are in common use by climbers, there are a bunch of MP conversations about them.  Data for 6000 psi (what I remember) is mentioned here:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/106307337/bolts-use-or-lose?page=3

Offer is open to Rob and Sandy, will mail you guys each a bolt.  Or any other curious parties, except I only have 3 right now!

Rob, have you thought about placing glue-ins?  

That would avoid all the above issues and there's some American and German products that are very good.

I have placed alot of glue ins. They are an atractive price point now with the tariffs. I have not considered them for this area yet. However, a wave bolt and glue is basically the same as what i can source 1/2 ss  studs and hangers for now.

I was able to do it for less than 3 dollars a half inch SS stud and hanger for awhile.

Its just  around 4 dollar's for a  wave bolt and powers glue.

Ill be rap bolting and may just get more Rbs to set the directionals to determine the good spots to clip. I dont have any more of the 1/2 triplex style bolt left i used for that.