Gunks-Sky Top-Mohonk Mountain House Advice

So, it looks very likely I will be staying at the mountain house this fall.  My lady doesn't climb but I may be able to find a partner here as I have in the past.  Is the climbing in the private area worth it?  It looks like I have 3 options:

Hire a guide and be a tope rope hero.  I don't think the guides allow clients to lead.
Go without a guide and risk fines.  Very unlikely to do this.  Just wondering if people do this.
Rent a car or take Lyft/Uber to other parts of the gunks and do my own thing.  Is this practical?

Any other input would be great!  I grew up in NY but didn't take to climbing until I moved away.  So, its kinda fun to go back there to climb.  I have climbed in the gunks a bit.  

You can bike from the MH to the cliff on the carriage road.

Walked up to MH from Butterville rd and then on up to Sky Top once. Does not seem like a place where you can sneak in a climb.  Guests wear color coded bracelets, the Sky Top area is well used by hikers, and the guides are busy guiding parties.  

It is around 2 miles hike from the Mountain House to the Uberfall and I used to approach Skytop from the Trapps when climbing was open to the public.  

Many of the climbs at Skyptop are very good and memorable despite being mostly one pitch. If cost is not an issue hire the guide and try the classics in your grade range.

We used to walk it in the other  direction  all the time

If you're a guest of the mountain house you have access to mountain bikes, that will be you're best way to get to the trapps. It's around a 20 minute ride on carriage roads. If you have any questions get in touch with me. 

Definitely walk over to the Trapps. You can pick a place in the middle like the Andrew Boulder or the Boxcar to meet up with someone. Or if you find a partner who has a car they could pick you up at the Mountain House but that's probably more trouble than walking. 

Gunks facebook group is a good resource for partners - feel free to PM when you're in town, happy to meet up and share a rope if I'm free...

Awesome. Thank you for the feedback. Maybe I’ll do a day with a guide at Sky Top for the novelty of it, then bike over to meet up with one of you guys if you are available the other days. 

SethG wrote:Or if you find a partner who has a car they could pick you up at the Mountain House but that's probably more trouble than walking. 

I don't think they would be allowed past the gatehouse.

Gunkiemike wrote:

I don't think they would be allowed past the gatehouse.

Correct.

Gunkiemike wrote:

I don't think they would be allowed past the gatehouse.

Right, sorry, my bad. 

 Don't they have a shuttle from the Big House down to the Gatehouse/ golf course?

if you did want to climb and pay for a guide at the mountain house...they will let you lead if the guide is comfortable with it.  I did it a couple years ago - through a series of events I wound up staying there and figured it was my one chance to climb there so I forked over the cash for the experience.  The guide was cool and we had a great day and I led several pitches.  We were supposed to do a second day but it rained.  That being said do I think it is worth the $$$$ vs the Trapps or Nears...probably not.  Do I regret doing it, not at all - I am glad I got to experience the place and grateful I had the funds to give it a try.  It was pretty cool to get on some classic climbs in my range and check out some other really classic climbs out of my range.

The mountain house will give you a box lunch for the day and its like a 10 min walk to the cliff - so if you can afford it, its kind of cool and a neat experience albeit a bit extravagant IMO.

I shelled out for a Sky Top day with Marty for my wife's 40th birthday.   We had a blast.   Would recommend.

Cpn Dunsel wrote: Having a chance to climb at Sky Top is an opportunity that should not be missed. 

This. I stayed in the Mohonkonce and passed up the opportunity to hire a guide and climb at Skytop. I regret it to this day, and it is unlikely I will get the opportunity again any time soon, if ever.

neils wrote: if you did want to climb and pay for a guide at the mountain house...they will let you lead if the guide is comfortable with it.  I did it a couple years ago - through a series of events I wound up staying there and figured it was my one chance to climb there so I forked over the cash for the experience.  The guide was cool and we had a great day and I led several pitches.  We were supposed to do a second day but it rained.  That being said do I think it is worth the $$$$ vs the Trapps or Nears...probably not.  Do I regret doing it, not at all - I am glad I got to experience the place and grateful I had the funds to give it a try.  It was pretty cool to get on some classic climbs in my range and check out some other really classic climbs out of my range.

The mountain house will give you a box lunch for the day and its like a 10 min walk to the cliff - so if you can afford it, its kind of cool and a neat experience albeit a bit extravagant IMO.

^I work for Alpine Endeavors and can 2nd this

As much as it saddens me to see such limited access at such a wonderful crag, I highly recommend climbing there legally(currently only through AE.) The climbing is fantastic, no waiting in line for routes, and as mentioned above, we will let you lead if your guide is comfortable with it. 

EDIT: Okay, people have strong opinions about Skytop! I'll just delete--it's clear I spoke from ignorance and I'm not gonna argue with everyone.

I dunno, like I said, I never climbed there. Maybe all the best climbs in the Gunks are at Skytop and I'm missing out. All I'm saying is that the Trapps are right next door, a lot cheaper, and even if they're not as good as Skytop, they've still got world-class climbs at the grades I've climbed.

It's certainly a shame Skytop is so inaccessible. Don't accuse me of not caring about that--that's an entirely separate issue from the subjective quality of routes.

David K -   "Is Sound and Fury "better" than Son of Easy-O ?"    "Better" is a tough word, the climbs are so different in style and character.  But with all due respect, my personal opinion is "yes", S&F seemed the more "interesting" climb, both the first time I did it decades ago (when anyone with a button could climb there) and a few years ago when I did it with an AE guide.  Zig Zag Man is another great climb in the 5.8 range, as is Yellow Verchneidung.

 Now, are they worth the $$$'s ?  A very personal question.  When I was with AE it was thru a donation to the Mohonk Preserve ("won" it at one of their charity auctions), the $$$'s therefrom were going to ranger training and safety equipment, so it "hurt" a lot less.

I've sent Greg D a list of the climbs recommended to me by a world-traveled climber, as well as the 3-star (max # ) routes in Swain's old guidebook.

When the Mtn House "closed" Skytop I, like many others, was royally pissed off.  One of their primary reasons was the conflict(s) that developed at times between the guests and climbers descending thru the "crevasse", as well as the general sort-of-slovenness some climbers have.  I do not believe insurance was the primary issue, although it certainly was a factor. Today, as I see the near-total "zoo" that the Traps has become,  their decision seems to have been simply "far ahead of its time."

Skytop is a special place (especially those climbs overlooking the lake) , climb it if you can.

I also want to respond to David K.'s comments on climbing at Skytop. While Foops and Supercrack maybe the only 'classics' there that he has "heard about", I can assure him that there are indeed many others of all grades on that cliff. Most surprising is his belief that the easier routes are somehow not "as historic" as the ones he mentioned or are lacking in "unique features". Unfortunately this says more about Mr. K's lack of knowledge than it does about reality. Gargoyle and Overhanging Overhang (both currently graded 5.6 but 5.5 in the original Gran guidebook) were the second and third routes ever climbed in the Gunks. While somewhat short they are both very steep, intimidating, and unlikely-looking. It speaks volumes about Wiessner's boldness. skill, and confidence that he would launch out on those climbs with the limited equipment available to him in 1935 and with such a lack of familiarity with the nature of the Gunks rock (was it solid, would those jutting horns break when he pulled on them?). Plenty of history and uniqueness on those classics!!!! Or what about Minnebelle (put up in 1946--also by Wiessner)---again short, but at a solid 5.8, the first of it's grade in the Gunks--and one of a very few in the country at the time (many also first climbed by Fritz)--a grade not to be reached again on other climbs in the Gunks for about a decade after? There are plenty of other such examples.

Are routes at Skytop better than those at the Trapps or Nears is a very subjective question---they all offer great climbing. Routes at Skytop tend to be shorter than at the other 2 sections of the cliff but the actual climbing on them is usually excellent, the routes there tend to be steeper and more sustained on average, and the views (especially over the Lake and towards the hotel) are unique----and (for, in my opinion, unfortunate reasons) there are no crowds of other climbers waiting in line. Whether those factors make it  worth the cost--that is very much an individual decision. I was fortunate enough to climb there 'before', so, at least as of now, have elected not to shell out, but I do think that for those who have not had the opportunity to experience some of those routes--and who have the financial means to do so, it would be a worthwhile expenditure.

As someone who has climbed at Skytop (legally) as recently as this spring, I'd like to offer some insight into the cliff that has been missed by previous posters.

First off, you do NOT need to be a guest of the Mountain House to climb there anymore, but you do still need to hire a guide.

Secondly, to piggyback of what Alan Rubin said, Skytop is arguably as historically significant as any other cliff in the Gunks. I don't want to delve into specifics; plenty has been written about it for those willing to do some leg work to learn. Even if you can't afford to climb there, it's worth taking an old guide and hiking the base to simply marvel at what has been done so long ago.

Third, while yes there's no hordes of climbers about, but sadly this means that with the exception of the most well-trodden classics, the majority of the cliff is succumbing to nature's reclamation. Shrubs, saplings, and lichen are taking over once again. While this isn't a concern for the vast majority of climbers, even ones fortunate enough to visit, it is a little sad to see a place seem so neglected, especially since it was held in such high regard in its heyday.