Harness advice for via ferrata

Heading to the Dolomites, will be doing 4-5 beginner Ferratas ratings of A & B. I will be bringing my own gear. I bought a new ferrata set and have an old climbing helmet. The question is whether I can use my old harness or should I purchase a new one. The one I own is from 20 years ago it is an REI onsight sit harness, it's was only used for about 12 rappels, it's super basic, light weight, very bare bones, and that's part of the appeal -being light and easy to travel with and of course I already own it. Looks like it's in like new condition, but it is at least 20 years old.

Questions are:
Any reason to buy a new harness? Is there any age limitation? Would a 20 year old harness be just unsafe due to its age, or is it only about condition?
Can I make myself feel safer if instead of relying on  just the harnesses belay loop(first picture), I use a locking carabiner on the harness webbing and run the ferrata set through both the belay loop and the carabiner(second picture), or is that actually making it unsafe?

Thanks in advanceMike

In the photo your carabiner is cross loaded, doubtful you will break it but the way it is set up it has only about 30% of its potential strength. Do some research and read all the manuals that come with your gear so you know their proper use. Getting an experienced mentor or taking a class may be a good idea. Using a carabiner to backup the belay loop always raises the question that if you don’t trust your belay loop then you should get a new harness. A manufacturer is not going to recommend using a 20 year old harness, but research shows that if that harness has been stored properly and not exposed to chemicals it’s fine. Be safe, keep asking questions. 

Attach your via ferrata setup to your harness according to manufacturer’s instructions. Don’t improvise with gear you don’t know much about. If you feel the need to back-up your belay loop, then you don’t trust your harness and that worry in the back of your mind isn’t worth it. Buy a new harness. Find something basic on sale and it will be a sliver of a percentage of the cost of your trip, and a small price to pay for piece of mind. 

I think you need girth hitch through leg loops and waistbelt, exactly the same location and path you tie your rope to.

You don't tie to the belay loop.

John Kelly wrote: I think you need girth hitch through leg loops and waistbelt, exactly the same location and path you tie your rope to.

You don't tie to the belay loop.

I agree 1000%!  And any PAS or daisies should also be girth-hitched the the rope-tie-in pathway instead of girth-hitched to the belay loop. Doing so more than doubles the strength and provides a more dynamic “give”  to the system. 

Having actually used a via ferrata lanyard, the loop at the end is small enough that it is nearly impossible to girth hitch it around the tie-in points. It is totally fine to girth hitch stuff to your belay loop as long as you just don't leave it there for decades.

Tammy Gueterman wrote: If the harness has been stored in roughly indoor conditions away from sunlight, chemicals, and excessive heat it's probably safe to use. Despite manufacturers giving general shelf lives for gear even if its unused, most testing shows old ropes if stored well perform pretty much like they were made yesterday. Even really crunchy sunbleached nylon webbing retains about half its strength. I'd still feel weird climbing on a 20 year old harness, even though I know it's not contributing to risk in any practical way.

As for backing up the belay loop with a carabiner, it's probably unnecessary, and you shouldn't load a carabiner like a ring. If it makes you feel better, girth hitch a short sling through your tie in points and then girth hitch your via ferrata lanyard through the belay loop and the sling. That way, the sling is pretty much out of the picture unless by some anti-miracle your belay loop blows.

Thank you everyone else who responded also.

Tammy - harness has been in it's original bag in basement, cool and dry, and (still fits 20 year later, yay!)
I think I'll follow your suggestion and do a sling to back up the belay loop, that will be simple overkill but I'm feeling paranoid jumping back into this 20 years later. I'm doing some reading to catch up, I read somewhere these tiny belay loops are rated to 5000lb loads, just for my knowledge is that greater than my locking carabiner? Just trying to gain some knowledge, being a guy metal always seems more robust than something stitched out of fabric. :-)

I assume I should use webbing and a water knot to make the small sling?

George Bracksieck wrote:

I agree 1000%!  And any PAS or daisies should also be girth-hitched the the rope-tie-in pathway instead of girth-hitched to the belay loop. Doing so more than doubles the strength and provides a more dynamic “give”  to the system. 

That's exactly what I thought... until I bought the Petzel PSA where the Petzel instructions clearly state: " Attaches to the belay loop of the harness with a girth hitch " 

No, I don't know the reason, but that's what the manufacturer states !

Mike F wrote:

 I'm doing some reading to catch up, I read somewhere these tiny belay loops are rated to 5000lb loads, just for my knowledge is that greater than my locking carabiner? 

Mike, assuming your belay loop is also rated the same as the one on a new harness you are reading about, then that is comparable to the strength of a locking biner.  But that info is written right on the side of your locking biner, and that is just one of the many things you should be able to determine on your own if you are going to manage your own gear in a risky environment. Although everyone here is giving you their best advice, you are getting conflicting opinions and you have no way of knowing who on this Climbing forum is most knowledgeable about via ferrata. You may want to seriously look at some instruction. Nothing against you, it just may not be as simple as it looks. 

"Greg R" 's opinion is "right on".... You may want to seriously look at some instruction. Nothing against you, it just may not be as simple as it looks.

Robert Hall wrote:

That's exactly what I thought... until I bought the Petzel PSA where the Petzel instructions clearly state: " Attaches to the belay loop of the harness with a girth hitch " 

No, I don't know the reason, but that's what the manufacturer states !

The belay loop is more than strong enough. The low-radius bends of the girth hitch around the belay loop, which can have sharp, stiff edges, compromises the strength of the attached sling. It’s simple physics.

As we have seen with Petzl’s magnetic helmet buckles, which can create dangerous situations when the buckles don’t stay fastened, we can’t believe everything Petzl says. 

If you do a google search for climbing harness and click on images you'll see a whole lot of new harnesses for sale by big name climbing gear companies with leg loops going to the belay loop. Right or wrong, there is no shortage of harnesses with this design.

Greg R wrote: You may want to seriously look at some instruction. Nothing against you, it just may not be as simple as it looks. 

Point taken. But in reality keeping things in perspective, these are A-B rated ferratas I am going to be doing, promoted as family outings suitable for small children ages as young as 7 years old. Basically the skills required are being able to climb a ladder. Harnesses aren't even a requirement until D rated ferratas. However, after this trip if this rekindles a bug and I look to continue and do some more challenging routes or get back into slot canyons and rappelling I will look into getting instruction again.

Here is how they are described:

A - Flat to steep
Mostly rocky or interspersed with rocks, exposed passages possible Wire ropes, chains, iron clamps, individual short ladders. Ascent is largely possible without the use of safety devices.Steady footing and a head for heights recommended Via ferrata equipment recommended. Experienced walkers may not require safety equipment.

B - Moderately difficult
Steep rocky terrain, some small steps, exposed sites Wire ropes, chains, iron clips, stepping pins, longer, possibly vertical ladders. Difficulties without safety elements up to III (UIAA).Steady footing and a head for heights, good condition, some power and endurance in arms and legs Via ferrata equipment recommended

C -Difficult
Steep to very steep rocky terrain, mainly small steps, longer potentially very often exposed passages Wire ropes, iron clamps, stepping pins, longer or over hanging ladders. Clamps and pins can also be further apart. In vertical sections partly only wire rope. Difficulties without safety elements up to IV (UIAA).Steady footing and a head for heights, good condition, power and endurance in arms and legs Via ferrata equipment strongly recommended, untrained children may have to take the rope

D -Very difficult
Vertical, often overhanging terrain, mostly very exposed Wire rope, iron clamps and stepping pins are often far apart. On exposed and steep places often just a wire rope. Enough strength in arms and hands, as longer vertical to overhanging areas and smaller climbing areas up to II /UIAA) possible.Via ferrata equipment obligatory, even experienced via ferrata climbers may require the use of a rope. Not suitable for beginners and children!

E -Extremely difficult
 Vertical to overhanging, exposed throughout, very small steps or slab climbing Wire rope, iron clamps and stepping pins are often far apart. On exposed and steep places often just a wire rope. Often combined with scrambling .A lot of strength in hands (fingers), arms and legs, increased level of condition, mobility. Via ferrata equipment obligatory, rope teamwork is worth considering, especially when touring places without safety devices. Not suitable for beginners and children!

F- Extremely difficult
Primarily overhanging, exposed, very small steps or slab climbing Wire rope, iron clamps and stepping pins are often far apart. Combined with scrambling.Good climbing technique is imperative, a lot of strength in hands (fingers), arms and legs, increased level of condition, mobility Via ferrata equipment obligatory, top rope climbing equipment recommend. Not recommend for people who cannot manage difficulty level E without problems.

Mike F - Your initial question was "Do I need a new harness...would a 20yr old be OK?"  That pretty much got answered...."Should be OK if it's been kept well...cool, dry."  Then came the question about how to tie-in ...and I mentioned Petzl's "recommendation" to tie in thru the belay loop, not thru the usual rope-tie-in-procedure.  I'm sure from a safety factor there's no difference, regardless of Petzl's magnetic buckles for helmets.

You state : "Harnesses aren't even a requirement until D rated ferratas. "  I'm no expert, having only done about 15 days of VF's in Europe, and the last time about 10 yrs ago, and didn't know there was this 6-level grade system. However, if you look at level "B", it states "...some power and endurance in arms and legs Via ferrata equipment recommended ."  Assuming the definitions of the six levels are something official...when someone "official" recommends something in Europe chances are it's best to follow it.  None of the VF's I did required anything I would consider as needing "power and endurance in (the) arms....", yet knowing what I do about above-2-fall-factor falls, and fall factors of 5 and above are a potential on all of the VF's I did, I wouldn't have dreamed of doing them without "VF equipment".

...and whether you agree or not with the gist of the last sentence, if there is anything about it you don't understand, then revert to Greg R's suggestion.

Robert Hall wrote: Mike F - Your initial question was "Do I need a new harness...would a 20yr old be OK?"  That pretty much got answered...."Should be OK if it's been kept well...cool, dry."  Then came the question about how to tie-in ...and I mentioned Petzl's "recommendation" to tie in thru the belay loop, not thru the usual rope-tie-in-procedure.  I'm sure from a safety factor there's no difference, regardless of Petzl's magnetic buckles for helmets.

You state : "Harnesses aren't even a requirement until D rated ferratas. "  I'm no expert, having only done about 15 days of VF's in Europe, and the last time about 10 yrs ago, and didn't know there was this 6-level grade system. However, if you look at level "B", it states "...some power and endurance in arms and legs Via ferrata equipment recommended ."  Assuming the definitions of the six levels are something official...when someone "official" recommends something in Europe chances are it's best to follow it.  None of the VF's I did required anything I would consider as needing "power and endurance in (the) arms....", yet knowing what I do about above-2-fall-factor falls, and fall factors of 5 and above are a potential on all of the VF's I did, I wouldn't have dreamed of doing them without "VF equipment".

...and whether you agree or not with the gist of the last sentence, if there is anything about it you don't understand, then revert to Greg R's suggestion.

Is this about the time threads tend to degrade into the toilet?

I watched Gordon Ramsay do a Via Ferrata on TV last night.. pretty cool 

harnesses are cheap.  surgery is expensive

You should buy a new harness. Is the old one probably fine? I dunno, do you want to "probably" live? This is a no-brainer. Spend the $40 on something cheap but made in the 21st century.

MikeF - Re'   "Is this about the time threads tend to degrade into the toilet? "

Not too sure what you mean by that, but I assure you all my comments are posted in your best interest.

George Bracksieck wrote:

I agree 1000%!  And any PAS or daisies should also be girth-hitched the the rope-tie-in pathway instead of girth-hitched to the belay loop. Doing so more than doubles the strength and provides a more dynamic “give”  to the system. 

Ok, please go fall on a PAS on your tie in points and girth hitched to belay loop, let us know how dynamic it is! 

Most lanyards are hard enough to girth hitch to belay loop, getting through tie in points may not be possible. Also any extra length being on the belay loop is appreciated

If you do not do any rock climbing as well, then getting a lightweight harness will be less weight to carry and less bulk in pack.