The terrible, horrible, no good, very bad search for a #$&@ing climbing pack

Noah R wrote: Am I the only one that can fit a double rack, rope, harness, draws, water, snacks, helmet, guidebook and rope bag in a 30 liter pack? Anything much bigger seems kinda wild for climbing unless its also an overnight trip. Yes? No?

Depends in part on who is measuring the 30L, sadly not standardized. I bet you're not using an Arc'teryx 30L. On the other side of the spectrum I'm pretty sure my BD Speed 30 is 40L+. 

The pack is an old model deuter trans alpine. Yes the rope gets backpack coiled and sits on top of the pack. Helmet also gets strapped to the back (securely, not flopping around).

The older version of this pack had the U shaped zipper for access so I can put the rack and draws in then zip and make the pack vertical. Everything heavy settles in the bottom then put shoes harness guidebook whatever else on top of that. Smaller compartment for other things.

I can certainly see how having a slightly bigger pack would give more flexibility though. 35-40 would be way more versatile I am sure. Full disclosure I also got this pack for touring then decided it worked well for climbing too so its not really a dedicated climbing pack. 

Dallin Carey wrote:

A "fuck ton" is part of its own unique and incredibly accurate measurement system. A "fuck ton" falls right in between "huge fuckin pile" and "fuckin boat louck toad."

Thanks, Dallin. You sound like you really know weights and measurements. Is a fuck ton greater than a shit ton?

That is correct. 4 shit tons make up a fuck ton.

Thanks for so many great replies, experiences, and suggestions. Truly helpful! I will be checking out many, many of these products!

To more specific, I am looking for a cragging pack. I have a BD Bullet and Speed 22 I use as on-route climbing packs. If a pack can offer ice equipment accommodations as well, that's a plus but not required (can look for a separate ice pack if necessary). I am 5'6" .... so whether I'm "short" or "tall" depends on who you ask. 

I have to be honest, I'm mystified how some of you can fit an entire rack, rope, helmet, layers, food + water in a 30L pack, but more power to you. For me, I really prefer something in the 40-50 L range to have packing flexibility.

Buff Johnson wrote:
Anyway, last year in Ouray, I tried on another BD pack, Mission. It works for me. (shout out to Ouray Mountain Sports, for their awesome service, yet again.)

I've seen some BD packs that appear to meet some of my criteria, but I am hesitant to go with their shoulder strap-hip belt suspension design again after all my complaints about my Speed 50. Do BD packs actually carry and feel differently between models?

sclair wrote:I'm 5'2" on a good day and I've had a lot of luck with the Black Diamond Stone 45 S/M and I think it fits great. It has a full length side zipper. It carries a heavy load really well and is comfortable along my back.

Have you ever carried one of the larger Speed packs? Just wondering if the Stone or Creek can really carry all that differently from BD's other models (as see my statement above). I was under the impression their harness suspension was similar between packs. It did not work well for me in the Speed.

For those recommending the Gregory Zulu - it's a men's pack and I'm not looking at men's packs. I have the women's version of this pack and, while I appreciate certain features, I don't find it comfortable to carry a lot of shit for multiple hours.

Anybody use the Osprey Mutant? I see great reviews on this pack. Looks like it can crag or climb. It's marketed as "unisex" which I always find very suspect as a woman, but it has enough accolades from various review sites that I'm curious regardless.

Aerili wrote: Thanks for so many great replies, experiences, and suggestions. Truly helpful! I will be checking out many, many of these products!

To more specific, I am looking for a cragging pack. I have a BD Bullet and Speed 22 I use as on-route climbing packs. If a pack can offer ice equipment accommodations as well, that's a plus but not required (can look for a separate ice pack if necessary). I am 5'6" .... so whether I'm "short" or "tall" depends on who you ask.

I have to be honest, I'm mystified how some of you can fit an entire rack, rope, helmet, layers, food + water in a 30L pack, but more power to you. For me, I really prefer something in the 40-50 L range to have packing flexibility.

I've seen some BD packs that appear to meet some of my criteria, but I am hesitant to go with their shoulder strap-hip belt suspension design again after all my complaints about my Speed 50. Do BD packs actually carry and feel differently between models?

Have you ever carried one of the larger Speed packs? Just wondering if the Stone or Creek can really carry all that differently from BD's other models (as see my statement above). I was under the impression their harness suspension was similar between packs. It did not work well for me in the Speed.

For those recommending the Gregory Zulu - it's a men's pack and I'm not looking at men's packs. I have the women's version of this pack and, while I appreciate certain features, I don't find it comfortable to carry a lot of shit for multiple hours.

Anybody use the Osprey Mutant? I see great reviews on this pack. Looks like it can crag or climb. It's marketed as "unisex" which I always find very suspect as a woman, but it has enough accolades from various review sites that I'm curious regardless.

Things I don't know anything about but might make a difference: did BD change their harness/suspension recently? My stone is maybe 3 or 4 years old (I assume it was manufactured not too long before I bought it but who knows).The Speed may have been recently updated, but I'm not sure how long you have had yours. Even if they have the same shoulder/hip suspension system, the packs have different designs and maybe carry weight differently? I have never carried a speed pack but an old climbing partner did. It looked narrow and tall. 

I would suggest you call BD and see what their return policy is if you buy it and don't like the fit, especially if you're unable to try on the packs you're interested in. I used to work there, I know a lot of people in the sales office. They're really nice and should be able to help you out (but don't hold me to that ;) 

Check out the Patagonia Ascensionist Climbing Pack 40L. I've had it for over 3 years. I've used at the crag as well as overnight climbing trips in the backcountry. I've used it for sport, trad, ice, and mountaineering - there are attachments for your tools. I find it carries splendidly; I've done 17 miles with a backcountry load in it without any complaints about the pack. Taking out the frame helps it conform better to my body when using it as a follower pack and it's pretty easy to pop back in. The pack itself it pretty light. And overall, I find it to be durable. Plus Patagonia has a great repair program should anything end up being an issue. The pack is unisex, but it still works well for me; I'm 5'2 for reference.

Gregory Alpinisto 35 L pack!
Pros: it has a separate padded crampon pouch, really nice spot for 2 ice tools, side zipper in addition to top loading. It has a removable brain, thick waist belt, and bivy pad.
I can fit a double rack and alpine draws, water, food, clothes, and a rope in it.

Why do people allow themselves to be frustrated by the search for perfection in material things?

Go to a gym with a Buddha climbing hold. Climb up to it, stand on it, and contemplate its meaning.

North face cinder 40. Best crag pack I've ever owned. My partner is 5'2 and she borrows it regularly because it's so comfortable for her as well. I'm 5'8, so i guess it fits different body frames.
P.s. mine is the previous generation so I'm not sure if the current model has made any changes.

You do not always have to fill a pack. There are often times (when climbing) that a pack will be near-empty
  but It is nice to have the ability to overstuff when you want/need to

Fan Yang wrote: North face cinder 40. Best crag pack I've ever owned. My partner is 5'2 and she borrows it regularly because it's so comfortable for her as well. I'm 5'8, so i guess it fits different body frames.
P.s. mine is the previous generation so I'm not sure if the current model has made any changes.

I have a short torso, & also really liked the older (2016) 40L TNF 'Cinder" w/ a 2 strap lid over a versatile roll-top    The new model is different, an off-round stand-up style bag, made entirely out of coated material as opposed to just the bottom 3rd & a single strap lid over a front/center, cinch draw-cord closure.                                                                                                                   `.

~>This is the older style but in the smaller 32L size

Updated 4 days ago North Face Cinder 32 climbing backpack PRE-OWNED/USED The North Face $79    <~

Also as with The North Face,
 I've used & liked the sturdy 40L 4 season versatility
of GRANITE GEAR packs
like the Lutsen 45 Liter
S/M Backpack Green Refit Frame DWR Ripstop
$127.00 at eBay
 similar to the older models of  "Granite Gear" packs, I liked
With a roll-top closing & dual pocket, 2strap extendable/removable lid                                                                                                                                                                                     that could be used to climb with
"Granite Gear" packs come in  35L, 45L. 55L & bigger -very  adjustable,   S-L
Good site for info, A  35L for  $107

&

A 35L with a "fixed Lid" like the Patagonia ~but~ $49 ! on sale
`
Mystery Ranch makes size/gender-targeted packs
`
I have a black Black Diamond Stone 45, & do not like the color;

The Stone 45  now comes in red & "Nickle" gray $111.45 

If you don't mind black as a color; there is a custom 35L "Crag" version 

If you want to climb with it the Patagonia ascentionist mentioned above definitely does the job well.

Otherwise I'll echo that the Arc'teryx Bora is amazing, I have had awesome luck with granite gear, and I really dislike the suspension of my BD speed 50.

My favorite pack for this is the hyperlite mountain gear summit pack, which is about the size of the BD bullet (and a top loader) but it's very comfortable for a huge range of body sizes and carries well. (Rope and helmet end up outside sometimes, but I've done many long climbs with bivy gear carrying that as my only pack with no complaint)

My grain of salt - 6'1' 150lb male

I have had similar struggles with finding a climbing pack that fits, and the best I have found so far (and use frequently) is the Mammut Trea 35. I usually have it cinched down all the way, which isn't ideal, but it works. https://www.mammut.com/us/en/p/2520-00810-50185/trea-35/

exped.com/usa/en/product-ca…

Halbert ·WROTE:  20 hours ago ·
exped.com/usa/en/product-ca… oK, ~WANT ONE~ but do I need one? 

The Cost Matters.  @> $200.00 ? (call me cheap, but I don't buy a dozen roses ever either, don't drink/Rx~Bdz)  

Exped USA, Mountain Pro 

Design details

  Details matter
 things like padding, removable back pad, taped seams,  bar-tacked  "smart" &or/removable straps,  padded double bottom, "Dual type extendable access"  & other features are often more than just bells & whistles. These sorts of designs that increase the price Are sometimes are worth it but often a "Super" sack faces the same limitations "in the field" as a simple sack with a good padded harness.

Not much bells and whistles.. their designs are pretty minimalist. Up to you to decide if you need one. 

Attentive Follower wrote: Why do people allow themselves to be frustrated by the search for perfection in material things?

Go to a gym with a Buddha climbing hold. Climb up to it, stand on it, and contemplate its meaning.

You can’t make references like that this far into a thread, I forgot what I was reading. 

Aerili wrote: Thanks for so many great replies, experiences, and suggestions. Truly helpful! I will be checking out many, many of these products!

To more specific, I am looking for a cragging pack. I have a BD Bullet and Speed 22 I use as on-route climbing packs. If a pack can offer ice equipment accommodations as well, that's a plus but not required (can look for a separate ice pack if necessary). I am 5'6" .... so whether I'm "short" or "tall" depends on who you ask.

I have to be honest, I'm mystified how some of you can fit an entire rack, rope, helmet, layers, food + water in a 30L pack, but more power to you. For me, I really prefer something in the 40-50 L range to have packing flexibility.

I've seen some BD packs that appear to meet some of my criteria, but I am hesitant to go with their shoulder strap-hip belt suspension design again after all my complaints about my Speed 50. Do BD packs actually carry and feel differently between models?

Have you ever carried one of the larger Speed packs? Just wondering if the Stone or Creek can really carry all that differently from BD's other models (as see my statement above). I was under the impression their harness suspension was similar between packs. It did not work well for me in the Speed.

For those recommending the Gregory Zulu - it's a men's pack and I'm not looking at men's packs. I have the women's version of this pack and, while I appreciate certain features, I don't find it comfortable to carry a lot of shit for multiple hours.

Anybody use the Osprey Mutant? I see great reviews on this pack. Looks like it can crag or climb. It's marketed as "unisex" which I always find very suspect as a woman, but it has enough accolades from various review sites that I'm curious regardless.

I recently picked up an Osprey Mutant 38, size s/m.  I bought it for ice season, but will toss my rock gear in it and give it a test next weekend.  I'm not too different in size from you, 5'5" and 125 lbs.  It will replace a BD Speed 40 that is always uncomfortable by day's end.  I've had mostly good luck with Osprey, but the one pack in my arsenal which I would use for the heaviest loads is a beefy old Gregory Shasta that weighs 6 pounds empty.  I lugged 60 pounds up to camp on Mt. Whitney with it once, and it didn't hurt my back or shoulders. 

Have you tried the HMG packs? They are the ones that fit my girlfriend. I also use and love them. 

Check out the warthog series from Blueice. Carry well, all the features you want, lighter than Cilogear and available in a small torso. First pack to fit my slim girlfriend. blueice.com/us/en/home/145-…