Black Diamond cuts 70 positions and transitions manufacturing out of Utah

https://www.snewsnet.com/gear/black-diamond-equipment-cuts-70-manufacturing-jobs

Damn that sucks.

But the part about you can't get access for some of that technology (outside of aerospace in the US, and they don't like sharing) is true. You couldn't make a competitively performing running or mountaineering shoe here in America as well. Cause simply those machines and technical knowhow isn't here :/ 

Black Diamond's multi-year strategy to migrate away from in-house manufacturing, seek the most capable facilities overseas, and boost its engineering and design staff.

No more in-house manufacturing. If you can't afford the tech, you find someone who can do it for you.

We will no longer manufacture carabiners, crampons, passive pro (stoppers), wall iron, and ice pro or machine any parts here in Utah, but we will continue to assemble Camalots, skins, and ice screws in the Salt Lake City facility. In the case of our Camalots, the complexity of the manufacturing process is in the assembly. So it’s not black or white. The machining of the metal lobes will now shift to another factory, but the cams will still be built in Salt Lake. 

Made in China assembled in USA.

I'm familiar with a large company that manufacturers chairs and tables among other things. Years ago they made the same move, move some fabrication to China and assemble in the USA, guess what? Quality of the metal products went down (bad welds, misaligned holes, sharp edges ect...), items they flagged for quality were sent back overseas to be reproduced. Few weeks later new shipment, exact same flagged parts. The outsourced factory never replaced the flagged parts, just returned the crate. This was the same story over and over. Ended up building a facility just to rework overseas parts. If you don't own the factory in china you have little to no control over quality. Now said company has been moving its manufacturing back to the USA so they have better quality control. I hope this isn't what happens to BD it could be detrimental to the brand.

This topic was hashed out in another thread last week.
Do they not teach researching a subject in school anymore?

The Raven wrote: This topic was hashed out in another thread last week.
Do they not teach researching a subject in school anymore?

Can you share the thread? I searched but didn't see anything.

Steve G wrote:

Can you share the thread? I searched but didn't see anything.

Thanks for answering my question ;)

The Raven wrote:

Thanks for answering my question ;)

Cool. Super helpful.

About four posts down

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/117367414/really-we-cant-talk-about-where-gear-is-manufactured

Steve G wrote:

Can you share the thread? I searched but didn't see anything.

Black Diamond lay-offs in overseas manufacturing move

Shitty news confirmed. I'll have to remove lots of BD gear off www.Americangearguide.com. This is why you don't fall in love with public corporations. I grew up next to BD's Salt Lake Headquarters and climbed at their old RockReation wall. Back then the company was all about their employees and committed to their local manufacturing, before selling out. This is why I prefer local private companies.

AmericanGearGuide wrote:This is why I prefer local private companies.

What’s that?

Marc H wrote:

What’s that?

Not publicly shared companies that maximize profit at the expense of their local employees.

Let me google that for you...

BillS wrote: I’ve seen this movie before many times.  RIP BD.  They don’t want to invest in their manufacturing so they outsource it.  Problem is all your profit and real IP goes out the door as well.  Design and manufacturing are one.  When you try to split them, the guy who can actually build it - the hard part that earns the real money - doesn’t need the twits who all they can do is make pretty drawings and market them.  That part is easy and when something is easy to do and there is still a modicum of pay out there to do it, someone is going to come in and take your lunch.  It won’t be long at all before that shack of BD “smartest guys in the room” are also replaced by a design company overseas - if they haven’t already - usually comprised of people tied to the factories.

Perhaps the movie is different with Apple "Designed by Apple in California Assembled in China" and they seem to be doing well.

It could be argued that the Apple movie is entirely from a different industry, but then you look at the Arc'teryx movie https://arcteryx.com/us/en/explore/sustainability/:

"The apparel manufacturing sector and workforce in Canada is shrinking by about 5% per year; however, our Canadian production capacity is bucking that trend and increasing as we continue to invest in Canadian technical apparel and gear manufacturing. As of January 2018, ARC'One employs approximately 450 people. That’s an increase of 30% over the past two years with space to grow. We have a training facility on site to teach new operators the technical skills of the trade. Local organizations ThreadWorks and Immigrant Services Society of BC (ISSofBC) offer industrial sewing programs that also help us meet the challenges of finding staff.
ARC'One allows us to design and prototype in unique exclusive ways then use that proprietary knowledge to scale production to bring product solutions to the world."

and they seem to be "bucking that trend" and doing well

How long will it be before fake cams start hitting the market?  I don’t think a us company should be allowed to outsource without paying for retraining of the displaced workers.

BillS wrote: I’ve seen this movie before many times.  RIP BD.  They don’t want to invest in their manufacturing so they outsource it.  Problem is all your profit and real IP goes out the door as well.  Design and manufacturing are one.  When you try to split them, the guy who can actually build it - the hard part that earns the real money - doesn’t need the twits who all they can do is make pretty drawings and market them.  That part is easy and when something is easy to do and there is still a modicum of pay out there to do it, someone is going to come in and take your lunch.  It won’t be long at all before that shack of BD “smartest guys in the room” are also replaced by a design company overseas - if they haven’t already - usually comprised of people tied to the factories.

My dad was a machinist in an aluminum plant by trade, and a gunsmith at home for fun. His pet peeve was "training" the new guys (with the degrees) in the drafting room that 1. measurements should actually add up and 2. No, that hole in the middle of the thing isn't possible to mill, lol! M. C. Escher stuff, too. I saw a couple of those he brought home. Way, way before computers, let alone CAD.

And, as you pointed out, when the guys who can mill the thing, and the "twits" can speak to each other? That's when the new ideas come together, literally. Innovation takes both.

Best, Helen

GearGuy 316 wrote:

Perhaps the movie is different with Apple "Designed by Apple in California Assembled in China" and they seem to be doing well.

It could be argued that the Apple movie is entirely from a different industry, but then you look at the Arc'teryx movie https://arcteryx.com/us/en/explore/sustainability/:

"The apparel manufacturing sector and workforce in Canada is shrinking by about 5% per year; however, our Canadian production capacity is bucking that trend and increasing as we continue to invest in Canadian technical apparel and gear manufacturing. As of January 2018, ARC'One employs approximately 450 people. That’s an increase of 30% over the past two years with space to grow. We have a training facility on site to teach new operators the technical skills of the trade. Local organizations ThreadWorks and Immigrant Services Society of BC (ISSofBC) offer industrial sewing programs that also help us meet the challenges of finding staff.
ARC'One allows us to design and prototype in unique exclusive ways then use that proprietary knowledge to scale production to bring product solutions to the world."

and they seem to be "bucking that trend" and doing well

Get real and read between the lines, it´s not loads of friendly Canadians sewing your jacket together. It´s making prototypes and display lines in Canada before shipping production out to the sweat-shops they own in Bangladesh, Vietnam, Indonesia and the usual places where people work for $10 a day. 450 employees could just cope with administering the company, sales and product development, production is elsewhere (Arcteryx is part of a large Finnish sporting goods group with a turnover of a couple of billion $ per year, not some nice little hometown Canadian company interested in the welfare of it´s citizens). If the numbers don´t work then Amer Sports will pull the plug.

AmericanGearGuide wrote: Shitty news confirmed. I'll have to remove lots of BD gear off www.Americangearguide.com. 

Might want to remove 5.10 from that list as well.

C. Seaton wrote:
Might want to remove 5.10 from that list as well.

That's right. There are still plenty of US built 5.10 climbing shoes on the shelves but Adidas has now outsourced their manufacturing. More to remove... I think I'll stick with privately owned La Sportiva now.

Jim Titt wrote:

Get real and read between the lines, it´s not loads of friendly Canadians sewing your jacket together. It´s making prototypes and display lines in Canada before shipping production out to the sweat-shops they own in Bangladesh, Vietnam, Indonesia and the usual places where people work for $10 a day. 450 employees could just cope with administering the company, sales and product development, production is elsewhere (Arcteryx is part of a large Finnish sporting goods group with a turnover of a couple of billion $ per year, not some nice little hometown Canadian company interested in the welfare of it´s citizens). If the numbers don´t work then Amer Sports will pull the plug.

Or $95 a month. According to CleanClothes.org "In a climate of fear and intimidation and after months of delays, Bangladeshi authorities have announced the new monthly minimum wage of 8,000 taka (USD 95) for the 4.5 million workers in the garment sector in Bangladesh. This amount shows complete disregard for legitimate workers' unions and for the need to set wages through social dialogue."

So arcteryx, they're now owned by a Chinese group that happened earlier this year I believe. Arcteryx's manufacturing in Canada is pretty much entirely limited to their veiliance line of clothing (and a few other items) now which is small batch and extremely expensive more akin to small Italian artisan brands, this is mostly serving the Japanese Market who absolutely love arcteryx. Them bucking the trend is easy to do when all you need is sewing machines and seam taping machines, very easy to grow along with demand, especially with the margins of their veiliance line.
If you want BD to buck the trend it involves millions of investment into state of the art hot forging facilities as well as finding qualified staff that have already been picked up by the bloated u. s aerospace industry. This is rather obviously a really really dumb idea and a massive waste of money, but that's what nationalism relies on I suppose.