Cross-loading with a grigri

I've been having problems where I accidentally crossload my locking carabiner (Petzl Attache) while belaying someone on lead. This only happens with my grigri, I haven't had problems with my atc albeit with a different locking carabiner (Camp HMS compact lock). I this a problem with my technique or is there something about grigri's and/or Petzl Attache's that make them more likely to cross load? Should I consider getting a belay specific carabiner?

Alex Z wrote: I've been having problems where I accidentally crossload my locking carabiner (Petzl Attache) while belaying someone on lead. This only happens with my grigri, I haven't had problems with my atc albeit with a different locking carabiner (Camp HMS compact lock). I this a problem with my technique or is there something about grigri's and/or Petzl Attache's that make them more likely to cross load? Should I consider getting a belay specific carabiner?

Get a belay specific biner if you're concerned about this. They're just nice anyway. I use a Grivel Clepsydra S and a Wild Country Ascent Lite Belay for different outings and love them both. The grivel is sweet because i can move it around with one hand nearly as fluidly as a non-locking biner once i got used to it. Also impossible to cross load no matter what with the design of the gates and horn.

mountainproject.com/forum/t…

This is a older forum with some suggestions on lockers.
If it is that big of an issue for you, consider using the Gridlock.

I've never really had an issue with this though, maybe it's a belay technique issue.

When using a GriGri turn the biener around so the narrow end is where the GriGri is, fat end on your harness, this will reduce crossloading (Opposite of an ATC). Grigris work best with a gridlock.

Mak Ely wrote: https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/News/2017-5-5/Carabiner-how-to-guide--choosing-and-using-the-right-carabiner

to add photo:

Interesting, I also own a spirit screw lock. Considering that Petzl makes the Attache, it's absence from these recommendations suggests that they shouldn't really be used with GriGris. Perhaps I should switch my attache for the spirit

Charlie Martz wrote: mountainproject.com/forum/t…

This is a older forum with some suggestions on lockers.
If it is that big of an issue for you, consider using the Gridlock.

I've never really had an issue with this though, maybe it's a belay technique issue.

Bad idea. To actually have anticross loading with a gridlock and grigri you have to flip it so that the grigri is on the small side of the biner. That's a royal PITA as you flip it around and have to open/close the gate repeatedly.

The Clepsydra S mentioned upthread just requires you to press a wire gate out, slide the whole thing onto the belay loop in one motion. It's so much faster than the damn gridlock. Yes I've owned both, got rid of the gridlock after a month. Worst design of all the anticross loading biners out there. 

Alex Z wrote:

Interesting, I also own a spirit screw lock. Considering that Petzl makes the Attache, it's absence from these recommendations suggests that they shouldn't really be used with GriGris. Perhaps I should switch my attache for the spirit

Yeah, give the spirit locker a go. I switched out from using attache lockers with a Gri and not turning back. I believe the spirit is stronger lengthwise with gate closed as well.

Also, with the GriGri on the narrow side, (like others above) and the wider rope basket side of the spirit oriented to my belay loop, it is quite difficult to crossload.

Nick Drake wrote:

Bad idea. To actually have anticross loading with a gridlock and grigri you have to flip it so that the grigri is on the small side of the biner. That's a royal PITA as you flip it around and have to open/close the gate repeatedly.

The Clepsydra S mentioned upthread just requires you to press a wire gate out, slide the whole thing onto the belay loop in one motion. It's so much faster than the damn gridlock. Yes I've owned both, got rid of the gridlock after a month. Worst design of all the anticross loading biners out there. 

Fair enough, I've only used the gridlock so I can't say that it's any better or worse than any other biners designed for anti cross loading. But I haven't found using the gridlock to be that much more work than any other normal locking biner. 

Nick Drake wrote:

Bad idea. To actually have anticross loading with a gridlock and grigri you have to flip it so that the grigri is on the small side of the biner. That's a royal PITA as you flip it around and have to open/close the gate repeatedly.

The Clepsydra S mentioned upthread just requires you to press a wire gate out, slide the whole thing onto the belay loop in one motion. It's so much faster than the damn gridlock. Yes I've owned both, got rid of the gridlock after a month. Worst design of all the anticross loading biners out there. 

To be honest I prefer the gridlock for this reason. I dont really like the wire spring deal that other belay biners have. I find them more annoying

DMM Rhino.

I've seen these in a gym. It worked really well at preventing cross loading (and people from stealing their belay devices) and I was thinking of getting the same for my grigri:

https://www.climbingwallservices.com/shop/carabiners/dmm-16mm-rubber-keeper/
https://proshop.safetyoneinc.com/petzl-string-rubber-webbing-protector-for-absorbic.html

Blake Neville wrote:

To be honest I prefer the gridlock for this reason. I dont really like the wire spring deal that other belay biners have. I find them more annoying

Did you have one of the wire springs that you have to press outwards to open when sliding onto the belay loop? I had an edelrid like that and found it really annoying as well. The grivel wire opens downard, so you just pull the carabiner out and it clips into the belay loop, no manipulation needed.

I just got annoyed by the gridlock having to open and close the gate and spin it around to load the grigri on the small side. That was also with a magnetron that I ended up not liking either, screw gate at least I wouldn't have to pinch it every time. 

I ended up buying a Grivel Clepsydra, but I accidentally bought the twingate rather than the S because I'm an idiot. I had to file down the gates on the twingate to be able to get the GriGri off and on easily, but it works in the end.

I think my original problem was the GriGri was moving on to the straight part of the D carabiner while feeding rope. If the system is loaded while the GriGri is on the straight part, it gets stuck there because the hole on the grigri is small and it kind of cams on the carabiner. Thus the carabiner get cross-loaded. I never actually tried switching to the Spirit twist lock, but that might've helped some. I kinda wanted some new gear anyway :) and I've always been interested in the twingate locking mechanism. The extra weight of the anti-crossloading carabiner doesn't bug me because I only ever use the GriGri when cragging. For multipitch, I always use an atc.

I must say that I am mightily impressed with the twingate carabiner. The system is intuitive and fast even with a GriGri that just barely fits over the gates. I think it's the easiest auto-locking mechanism I've ever used, a clear technological improvement. It almost fun to use.

Alex Z wrote: I ended up buying a Grivel Clepsydra, but I accidentally bought the twingate rather than the S because I'm an idiot. I had to file down the gates on the twingate to be able to get the GriGri off and on easily, but it works in the end.

...and by doing so, you may have created a carabiner that's much more dangerous than a crossloaded carabiner...

Ted S wrote:

I have a twistlock Rhino and a screw gate Ceros.  I only use the Ceros for my Grigri.  It has the same "spine-block" nose thing, but also a gate for the belay loop which is kinda nice.

https://dmmclimbing.com/Products/Locking-Carabiners/Ceros

I used to have cross load problems a lot and was rather paranoid to keep checking. I now use the rhino carabiners for my ATC, revo, and grigri.  I love it and have not had a cross load since.

Nick Drake wrote:
Bad idea. To actually have anticross loading with a gridlock and grigri you have to flip it so that the grigri is on the small side of the biner. That's a royal PITA as you flip it around and have to open/close the gate repeatedly.

It literally takes about 0.1 seconds longer. Don't get the magnetron gridlock, it is a PITA with that one. With a regular screwgate gridlock, though, it's incredibly, incredibly easy.

I use a BD Nitron or Positron...I've never had a single issue with crossloading with the smaller size lockers. CAMP Nitro also works brilliantly, but the Photon locker gets hung up a touch on the GriGri2...not sure about the + or the updated Gri.

If you really think that a Petzl GG needs a BD grid lock (or any other "anti-cross loading" biner) to work properly you need to look in the mirror and see where the error lies.

Or are you actually smarter than all the engineers at Petzl?

The thing about Hubris is that most are entirely unaware... 

Nick Drake wrote:

Did you have one of the wire springs that you have to press outwards to open when sliding onto the belay loop? I had an edelrid like that and found it really annoying as well. The grivel wire opens downard, so you just pull the carabiner out and it clips into the belay loop, no manipulation needed.

I just got annoyed by the gridlock having to open and close the gate and spin it around to load the grigri on the small side. That was also with a magnetron that I ended up not liking either, screw gate at least I wouldn't have to pinch it every time. 

The magnetron one is the absolute worst.

Nick Drake wrote:

Did you have one of the wire springs that you have to press outwards to open when sliding onto the belay loop? I had an edelrid like that and found it really annoying as well. The grivel wire opens downard, so you just pull the carabiner out and it clips into the belay loop, no manipulation needed.

I just got annoyed by the gridlock having to open and close the gate and spin it around to load the grigri on the small side. That was also with a magnetron that I ended up not liking either, screw gate at least I wouldn't have to pinch it every time. 

Yeah I did have to press outwards, I didn't realize they made them to open downward as that could definitely ease the pain. I had the screw gate gridlock though and it's always been super easy to use. Just slid the grigri down with the gate unlocked and it goes in similar to what youre saying with the downwards open wire gate. I guess only advantage is that yours wouldn't open the gate when sliding the grigri into place.

Also, magnetrons suck. I completely understand your annoyance there.

"I need a $30 carabiner to belay someone..."

What's wrong with this picture?