Portaledge rain fly vs bivy sack?

I'm trying to decide if I should fork over the extra money to buy a portaledge rain fly vs buying a cheaper bivy sack.  If you're not the type to do big alpine/winter walls, it seems you could save some cash by not buying a fly, but still have a way to survive a storm should things go bad unexpectedly.

Anything I'm not factoring into this decision?  Are rain flys a nice luxury even when the weather is good?  Do you always pitch your fly or do you prefer open air ledge life?

(If it makes any difference in your recommendations, I have a metolius double ledge)

I never used my fly, in fact I never even brought it with me because in Yosemite you have the internet on el cap and can see the weather. Light weight is better for walls and I didn’t have commit to the top since I could come back another time.
The level of commitment is something to consider. I met some Brits in the valley that were going for their wall during some horrible smoke from a fire. They came halfway around the world to be there, so they were committed while I just drove 3.5 hrs to get there.

Climbers have died from hypothermia on El Cap in April, October, and November when everything got soaked from storms. In a storm you're going to be miserable enough - foregoing a fly for a bivy sack just makes it that much more miserable and much harder to keep stuff dry.

(There have been other hypothermia deaths but I eliminated the ones that occurred in winter, as per the OP.)

You could make your own perhaps?

http://taiwanrock.50webs.com/pirate_portaledge_rainfly.html

I'm about to finish up my 4th one now. Its a castle! It fits a 47 x 75 titanium frame. Bed fabric is X-Pac. 

 With a little research, you can find the same material as Runout, D4, any of there other makers out there.
JCS

Almost 1/3rd of the time I’ve gone up El Cap the weather has changed for the worse. Some of those nights it was just cold, some were just drizzling rain. Quite a few were downpours, hail and snow. Three times I’ve been stuck in the same place for two nights.
Under my fly, in my warm clothes, it can be dumping and I’m having a good time. 

Having a fly will give you the ability to bring your gear and even your ropes (depending upon fixed pitches or not) inside the fly with you. A bivy sack not so much. When considering getting surprised by a storm that might last a few days with only a few windows of opportunity to move, having everything relatively dry is going to make the escape up or down much easier. 

A few years ago my partner and I got caught in a storm on el cap.  We each had a single ledge, he had a fly I just had a bivy sack.  I stupidly hung my ledge in a shitty spot right under a huge crack.  They always say that it doesnt take much rain to turn cracks into raging waterfalls.  It's true.  About twenty minutes of heavy downpour and I was sitting in a raging torrent of water.  Like so much water my ledge was getting bucked around with me in it.  My buddy was laughing from his fly while I was scared shitless in my bivy sack.  After about eight hours I was soaked to the bone but the rain let up.
Had the storm continued for any longer I probably would have squeezed into my partners single ledge under his fly.  This was on Lurking Fear.  It was meant to be our second route on the captain, but we ended up bailing.  It was late October, we had spent an extra day on the ground waiting for crowds to thin and winter storms were forecast for the coming days.  We went back and got it without portaledges a couple years later.  

I've got the fish econo-ledge.  No fly option. After sitting in that waterfall I bought a metolius fly and ghetto rigged it to fit the fish ledge.  I live in Tahoe, only like 4 or 5 hours from the captian, BUT after I've secured time off work and carried all that shit up to the base I would prefer not to bail.  

I think weather forecasts are pretty on point for a few days out.

If I'm planning on spending anything more than a few days on the route I bring that fly even though it weighs almost as much as the ledge.

I say take a fly.  I'm being a hypocrite here because on my 1 trip up El Cap we brought bivysacks instead.  But we were young and simply got lucky.  I know now that if a storm had hit us up high we would have been in serious trouble.  And that was in late May, not a hardcore winter ascent by any means.

Take a look and see if you think these guys were glad to have a fly on their ledge:

Russ Walling's "Native Son" trip report

Like John Dill wrote "...Survivors say they had no idea how helpless they’d be until it happened to them. To find out for yourself, stand in the spray of a garden hose on a cold, windy night. How long will you last?".

On the Nose last year we had our fly in the car, but ended up leaving it there when the weather forecast was clear.  I'd definitely want it if there was any concern of being stuck for a day or two in bad weather.

I have a BD betamid that seems like it could be easily rigged as a fly.  Less expensive than buying a dedicated ledge fly, and packs smaller.  I'm sure there are even cheaper ways to go about it if you're on a budget.

Ryan Arnold wrote: I have a BD betamid that seems like it could be easily rigged as a fly.  Less expensive than buying a dedicated ledge fly, and packs smaller.  I'm sure there are even cheaper ways to go about it if you're on a budget.

This is not a good idea. You might protect yourself from rain but all of your ropes will act as a funnel into your ledge and you'll get soaked. 

I'm sure there are even cheaper ways to go about it if you're on a budget.

Being on a budget is no excuse for skimping on personal safety. The stone isn't going anywhere; if a party can't afford to be prepared this year, another year of saving will allow them to afford it next year. Stoke does little to help you when the weather goes sideways.

I got caught in a massive lightning storm for 24 hours while climbing Tribal Rite. I'd brought a simple fly and a bivy sack. The bivy sack kept me dry in my ledge as I spent the night holding the ends of the fly down against the wind that was ligfting up my ledge and dropping it back down most of the night. I climb with a fully contained expedition fly now. 

kevin deweese wrote:

Being on a budget is no excuse for skimping on personal safety. The stone isn't going anywhere; if a party can't afford to be prepared this year, another year of saving will allow them to afford it next year. Stoke does little to help you when the weather goes sideways.

I got caught in a massive lightning storm for 24 hours while climbing Tribal Rite. I'd brought a simple fly and a bivy sack. The bivy sack kept me dry in my ledge as I spent the night holding the ends of the fly down against the wind that was ligfting up my ledge and dropping it back down most of the night. I climb with a fully contained expedition fly now. 

Expedition fly + bivy sack, or just the fly?

After the rescue the head rescue ranger will ask you why you didn’t have a fly. Be sure to mention that you were on a budget.  

MacksWhineturd wrote:I've got the fish econo-ledge.  No fly option. After sitting in that waterfall I bought a metolius fly and ghetto rigged it to fit the fish ledge.  

How effective is the metolius fly on the econo ledge? Does it truly keep the rain/elements out? Have considered doing this myself as I too only own an econo single

NegativeK wrote:

Expedition fly + bivy sack, or just the fly?

Depends upon the weather forecast  

In the future, I will most likely bring the fly, but it will also be with the G7 Pod inflatable ledge, so the added weight is negligible.  Otherwise like I stated before, it's based on the commitment level vs bail time.  Weight is a factor to slow things down too.  It's a personal choice based on timing, experience, expectations, commitment, speed of climbing, etc.  
Once I asked Brad Gobright how much water he brings on a NIAD (to be fair I didn't know who he was and was jacked on adrenaline from my mornings mishaps), he responded that he doesn't bring any water up. I thought he was crazy until I learned that he was doing it sub 3 hours.  It retrospect, that is the correct answer for him.  2 liters was too little, but 3 seemed about right for me.  Some people lug a gallon up with them for the day.  It's a personal choice based on those factors listed above.

Don’t put your self in a position where you have to bail off a wall just because you didn’t want pack and haul an extra <6 pounds.

Alec Sluser wrote: Don’t put your self in a position where you have to bail off a wall just because you didn’t want pack and haul an extra >6 pounds.

Jesus, how heavy is your fly Alec!?! 

(or rather how heavy is my fly lol)

Unfortunately I haven’t been able to afford the latest of fly technology. 

Alec Sluser wrote: Unfortunately I haven’t been able to afford the latest of fly technology. 

Dat why you need sugar daddy Kev

Ask ptpp if spending 20+ days on the cliff if he would leave the fly in the car.

Sorry i opened the gates of hell.