Really? We can't talk about where gear is manufactured?

Attentive Follower wrote: Is everything they sell made in the US?

No.

Metolius biners are made in Taiwan.

Most of BD's new biners for 2020 are also made in Taiwan - probably in that same factory....

that guy named seb wrote: Eew no. 
Mammut haven't made their own ropes in years, theyre made by edelrid. 

No, Edelrid makes Petzl's ropes.

See Malcolm Daly's post for you the situation with the manufacturing of Mammut's ropes.

Ryan Williams wrote: Fair point but she clearly thinks that only small niche companies manufacture in the US and that is simply not true. I am shocked that I am the only one to mention this. If BD and Metolius aren’t big enough hardware companies for the OP, I don’t know what she is after. Funnily enough, BD has had just as much trouble with quality control IN the US as they did in China!

I argue that BD had way more trouble with quality control in the US than they did in China.

When they moved production back to the US the vast majority of product lines that came out of their Utah factory got recalled.

How many recalls came from the China factory?

Khoi wrote:

No, Edelrid makes Petzl's ropes.

More than just petzl rope... 

See Malcolm Day's post for you the situation with the manufacturing of Mammut's ropes.

Thank you perhaps edelweiss is making them.

Attentive Follower wrote:

I agree that you can make something quality in any country, but anything made in the US is less likely to be counterfeit or have quality compromised due to cutting corners, graft, etc. Also there's less risk of shenanigans in the distribution chain if goods are not traveling across international borders.

It doesn't matter that much to me, but my question is really this: Why does it matter to manufacturers? Why can't American companies keep it simple and manufacture next door to the home office. Why bother with the complexities of international operations? Is it really all about cost?

But I'm also asking why other climbers care in an inconsistent way. Is the Made in America harness just a token to make someone feel good about their patriotism, or do they really think it matters more for a harness than a cam ... or the car that gets them to the crag?

A lot of climbers are happy to fill their rack with booty.. gear with unknown history that may have fallen 100's or 1000's of feet onto solid rock.. and most climbers plug into random old fixed gear. I once read on here a guy bailed on a toy biner because he was too cheap to leave a proper one behind.. he risked his entire life to save about $4. Climbers are maybe the most cost sensitive niche I've come across (ok, maybe exaggerating a little.. but maybe not). I feel like I'm definitely on the more cautious side and totally over-rack, but I don't care where the gear is manufactured if it comes from a reputable brand with a strong history. Guess I trust them to do testing. Wouldn't there be a lot more lawsuits from bad quality gear manufacturers?

Locker wrote: Pretty sure you mean Malcolm Daly...

Yes.

Stupid autocorrect.

Brent D wrote: Let’s not forget that black diamond had to issue multiple recalls after moving their production back to the US due to shoddy assembling on their products.

Well how many recalls have there been after that first round?  I’d say it’s hard to turn a ship like that and would call the recalls part of massive operational change. How much more would tariffs have added to the cost of cams if they were still made in China?  (I know the economics say that tariffs raise all prices from all manufacturers but I’d bet BD is not shitting bricks every time Trump tweets like some gear companies are who are manufacturing overseas)  The price of new BD cams is actually lower than when they were manufactured in China.  I have friends who work there and I have friends who work for gear co.s that manufacture overseas and the latter seems more concerned about their long term job viability than the former. 
From a local standpoint,BD also pays locals (many climbers+many non-climbers) who spend money with my employer and they all pay taxes that build and maintain infrastructure in my community. 

Khoi wrote:

I argue that BD had way more trouble with quality control in the US than they did in China.

When they moved production back to the US the vast majority of product lines that came out of their Utah factory got recalled.

How many recalls came from the China factory?

You’re right. I only said “as much” because I was pretty far detached from climbing media (and this forum) during that time so I don’t remember. 

You seem to know a lot about where things are made. Can you confirm that all BD cams and stoppers are made in Salt Lake? Metolius ... what do they still make in their bend factory?

Just going from what I know about DMM, it seems odd to me that a company that has the capability of forging cam lobes and assembling cams would outsource the forging and assembling of carabiners. I have read that BD manufactures all climbing equipment in Salt Lake, but maybe that’s not entirely true? I wonder how long before they send everything to Taiwan. 

One thing I know about DMM... they will always be in Wales. 

Malcolm Daly wrote: Tuefelberger, an Austrian corporation, manufacturers all of Mammut’s ropes. In 2016 Teufelberger “took over” Mammut’s production facilities. For some reason I seem to recall that Mammut and Teufelberger have been operating in partnership for decades so I’m not sure what “Take over” actually means. Teufelbergre’s Mammut Rope factory is in Czech.

In 2001 Teufelberger bought New England Ropes and so also owns the Maxim brand.

Edelrid makes their own ropes in their factory in Germany. Here’s a fun article on how Edelrid makes ropes.

I don't know if any of this information helps you....

I was told by the Mammut people that they shut down their Swiss factory, and they moved all the machinery, all their materials, and some of their staff to the Tuefelberger factory in the Czech Republic.

that guy named seb wrote: More than just petzl rope... 

Thank you perhaps edelweiss is making them.

Huh?

Edelweiss making Mammut ropes?

We just told you that Tuefelberger makes Mammut ropes, not Edelweiss.

Saw an post on reddit stating bd just laid off 120 peeps and moving productions overseas. Truth? 

Ryan Williams wrote:

You’re right. I only said “as much” because I was pretty far detached from climbing media (and this forum) during that time so I don’t remember. 

You seem to know a lot about where things are made. Can you confirm that all BD cams and stoppers are made in Salt Lake? Metolius ... what do they still make in their bend factory?

Just going from what I know about DMM, it seems odd to me that a company that has the capability of forging cam lobes and assembling cams would outsource the forging and assembling of carabiners. I have read that BD manufactures all climbing equipment in Salt Lake, but maybe that’s not entirely true? I wonder how long before they send everything to Taiwan. 

One thing I know about DMM... they will always be in Wales. 

At present it appears that BD Cams, Stoppers, Offset Stoppers, and Hexes are still made in their Utah factory.  I think all of the Micro Stoppers that are in the system came from their now-shutdown China factory, but don't quote me on that.  I'd have to double check.

Metolius makes their cams in their Bend, Oregon factory.  Their Biners are made in Taiwan.

Mongoclimb wrote: Saw an post on reddit stating bd just laid off 120 peeps and moving productions overseas. Truth? 

BD is doing a MASSIVE overhaul of their carabiner lineup for 2020.  The only current biners that they will still have going forward are the 3 Magnetron biners.  All the new biners will be made in Taiwan.

TenTon Kodiak wrote: Genuinely asking: why does it matter? Why are you actively looking for goods manufactured within the United States? If both quality control and attention to international standards are solid, why does it matter where a piece of equipment is manufactured?

Because manufacturing jobs are essential for our economy so buying American is very patriotic.  People complain about income inequality.  Did you know that a primary factor to creating that was the loss of good manufacturing jobs to China?  Buy American!

Is it racist to refuse to buy Chinese made products?

djh860 wrote:

Because manufacturing jobs are essential for our economy so buying American is very patriotic.  People complain about income inequality.  Did you know that a primary factor to creating that was the loss of good manufacturing jobs to China?  Buy American!

This is just plain wrong.

Tradiban wrote: Is it racist to refuse to buy Chinese made products?

No. It would be racist to refuse to buy from a Chinese person. But refusing to buy something based on where it’s made is not racist. It’s just a matter of preference. 

that guy named seb wrote:

This is just plain wrong.

Please illuminate us all with your wisdom ?

djh860 wrote:

Please illuminate us all with your wisdom ?

rather than going into the mainly nuances of income inequality i'll just show you how your clearly incorrect. turn of the 20th century all the manufacturing was localised, income inequality was it's highest ever. Low wage manufacturing jobs in the states would have little impact on billionaires, just how the low wage workers at mcdonalds aren't helping to reduce income inequality, manufacturing wouldn't help either.

Ryan Williams wrote:

No. It would be racist to refuse to buy from a Chinese person. But refusing to buy something based on where it’s made is not racist. It’s just a matter of preference. 

If you refuse to buy products made by a Chinese person you are refusing to by from a Chinese person by default. Preferring the work of your own race over the work of another race is bold faced racism.