Climbing in the Dolomites - cams or no cams?

Hello,

I'll be heading to the Dolomites in October for two weeks of climbing. I've recently ran into two people from the region who told me many of the routes are now bolted or have plenty of fixed protection and cams aren't really necessary. I do have a guide book that lists much of the routes as trad/alpine so I am planning on packing my trad gear. I know there is plenty of sport climbing in the region as well, but we're more interested in the classic trad routes. My question is for those who have been recently, did you take cams? Were most routes listed as trad bolted/fixed protection anyway? Were cams useful for climbing in the Dolomites or should I just rack up with nuts and slings?

Thanks

Been awhile, but I'll be taking a "standard alpine rack" with single cams through a #3 or perhaps a #4 when I go next week.  Your objectives sound similar to mine.  My photo from the Diretta Dimai posted here:

Diretta Dimai

Dolomites in October?  Bring crampons, an ice axe and some screws.

Randy Armenta wrote: Hello,

I'll be heading to the Dolomites in October for two weeks of climbing. I've recently ran into two people from the region who told me many of the routes are now bolted or have plenty of fixed protection and cams aren't really necessary. I do have a guide book that lists much of the routes as trad/alpine so I am planning on packing my trad gear. I know there is plenty of sport climbing in the region as well, but we're more interested in the classic trad routes. My question is for those who have been recently, did you take cams? Were most routes listed as trad bolted/fixed protection anyway? Were cams useful for climbing in the Dolomites or should I just rack up with nuts and slings?

Thanks

    I just got home, was there ~3 weeks (middle of heatwave Urgh)....been there 2x before, I mostly am interested in/do longer, classic routes to mid 11, to my mind the grading isn’t a give away. There’s usually (but not always)  a fair number of pegs of varying degrees of condition and antiquity but I can’t imagine very many (like no one) who would go up on any of the big classic rts w/ out a set of cams (blue alien to blue camalot +/-) along with set of smaller wires, couple pieces perlon for threads (cl) on topos.  Lots of long slings....Anchors are generally fixed but range from a couple to several pegs, very, very occasionally a bolt;  condition of all vary enormously.  Almost all required gear to back them up...especially if it’s a hanging belay.  Rock can be very fractured hence the number of fixed pegs sometimes.

    Biggest rt we did this trip was casin/ritti on Trieste..... used lots of cams every pitch except for the sections where you can’t get in any gear....interspersed were fixed pegs, very old fixed pegs in the fractured rock where there was no other gear or it would be very difficult and/or slow to get in additional pro.That in some 20 rts along those lines has been the norm.
 I’ve no idea of what those folks you spoke to were referring..... I’ve a friend who lives in Chamonix but is married to an Italian girl, climbs there extensively.   He’s my “go to” source for info- any rt I ever asked about the gear list was the afore mentioned assortment of cams etc more or less.  There might be things that are mostly/somewhat fixed but in general the ethnic of the area is not pro fixed gear outside the sport venues. Only exception was a lot of the descents had fat ring bolts or modern bolts for rapping, again, not always... some of those pegs are super old and mangled.  Total mixed bag.
 October might be kinda late in season, weather dependent, if you’re looking to do longer rts....lots of good stuff south/west facing though.  Lots of lifts (all?) will be closed or open only on wkends, same for the huts which would make things logistically more involved.  No lifts you can still hike in no huts and you’ve a bigger pack...    I’ve done very little sport climbing but there’s a bunch around, various exposures.   
Depends on what your objectives are..... ukclimbing.com has a bunch of Dolomites threads, maybe see if anything is applicable to your time line & aspirations. Hope that helps some- Have fun, awesome place!

Nuts?

Bring a rack. It'll give you the freedom to try lots of different climbs. Stoppers and cams. Twin ropes nice too. Enjoy!

Thank for the info everyone!

I do plan on taking a full rack and two ropes, just more or less wanted to corroborate the info by the Italian fellows.

I will be arriving in early October which could be mixed weather, but here's to catching an Indian summer ;) 

Just spent a week there, and I'll just add that having a few shoulder length kevlar threads was very useful--to reiterate what MikeD said.  Seemed like local ethic was also to use these threads to girth hitch the occasional bolt.  I got them made at the Rock and Ice store in Cortina which was a great shop.

colussiv wrote: Just spent a week there, and I'll just add that having a few shoulder length kevlar threads was very useful--to reiterate what MikeD said.  Seemed like local ethic was also to use these threads to girth hitch the occasional bolt.  I got them made at the Rock and Ice store in Cortina which was a great shop.

I can see having to girth hitch some pins but curious why you'd girth hitch a bolt hangar, or are these iron rings?

ddriver wrote:

I can see having to girth hitch some pins but curious why you'd girth hitch a bolt hangar, or are these iron rings?

Yeah, I mean the random iron rings that appear on some pitches.  It seemed like locals were also girth hitching the bolts themselves but maybe that's a euro thing.    

You don’t want to girth hitch kevlar if you plan on falling on it. Google some tests that DMM ran that reported kevlar breaking at fairly low impact force when it was girth hitched or tied.  I’ve moved back to nylon slings after seeing the video.

Are they talking big eye bolts too big to clip through?  If so, you’d thread a sling through and then clip it with a biner.  

Dana Bartlett wrote: My experience: Did the Cassin on the Cima Ovest, the Comici on the Cima Grande, the Vinatzer on the Marmolda, the Spigallo Gallo, and others - placed one cam. At a belay. I certainly would have placed gear, including nuts,  if I could have. Certainly no harm to carrying a rack.

But regardless of what I wrote - listen to Mike D.

 Hey Dana,  how’s things?.    probably they only rt I hardly used gear was Cima Piccola/Spigolo, it really wasn’t what I had in mind for longer rts, it’s rock quality is definitely the best of any rt I’ve done there & it’s not all that hard.... reminiscent of the gunks I thought,  but I’m almost positive I used gear in the first couple of highly polished chimneys....upper pitches not sure, memory not that good...haven’t done Comici on C Grande but I was told the “directissima” headwall had lots of pegs, the upper usually wet chimneys you wanted a rack....maybe you’re just braver then my buddy thinks I am...dunno.

  Maybe there is a number of rts with sufficient fixed gear.... I haven’t done them....even the Pruss finish to C Basso we used some gear in spite of the 1st ascent being soloed up & down cira ‘37(?). Not many Pruss’s in the world but not having a rack would certainly be limiting.
What I had in mind was stuff like Torre Venezia/Tissi rt, Toffana Constantini/Gherdina ( sping?).  Arete on Campo Basso etc...sometimes backing up the belays is climbing a few meters and getting gear in with a fervent hope not to fall on the anchor...
    As far as the threads we carried a few 5 & 6mm perlon untied shoulder length slings for threading & learned to tie an overhand knot with a single hand and clip a QuickDraw/sling into that.....also a couple of those impossibly small carabiners are good for mangled pins...   There’s no shortage of interesting behavior from the continental crew....

A good start might be Piz Ciavazes, the Schubert rt (friendship maybe?) crag is close to the road, south or west facing, not very hard (9/10) 6 or 7p and that route seems a good example of what the climbing is like there in general with there being good fixed anchors....we walked off but I think you can rap the rt (no promises check a topo)    You can adjust your aspirations from there, plus as it’s not summer you won’t have to listen to the endless roar of motorcycles.It’s a decent sized cliff probably other rts worth doing but that was the only one I did.  Another worth while thing is the via ferrara’s, you can do impossibly long enchantments.....and with the lifts not working you’ll probably be completely alone unlike “in season”.
Airport home from the east coast.... I forgot exactly what July in the NE felt like....urgh 
    

MDimitri . wrote:

 

A good start might be Piz Ciavazes, the Schubert rt (friendship maybe?) crag is close to the road, south or west facing, not very hard (9/10) 6 or 7p and that route seems a good example of what the climbing is like there in general with there being good fixed anchors....we walked off but I think you can rap the rt (no promises check a topo)     

IMO, rack up at the car and do the walk off for this one.   I don't even know if it is fixed for rappel but it seems fairly popular.  

October?  We were at Sella Pass climbing a few years back, first week of September.  Temp was 3C in the morning after the sun came up.

YMMV.

Arco would be great...

Fat Dad wrote: You don’t want to girth hitch kevlar if you plan on falling on it. Google some tests that DMM ran that reported kevlar breaking at fairly low impact force when it was girth hitched or tied.  I’ve moved back to nylon slings after seeing the video.

Are they talking big eye bolts too big to clip through?  If so, you’d thread a sling through and then clip it with a biner.  

Thanks for the info.  Do you have the link by chance?

Was there last year, great place, great climbs, and great food. I would say bring cams + nuts. They come in useful. We carried a double rack around like some gumbies, but by the end of the trip had it pretty well pared  down to a single rack, which will work well for a lot of the moderate routes if you are comfortable on the rock at the grade. Gear is sparse anyway, and there are pitons around; but it's still nice to have some cams.

@ collussiv

https://dmmclimbing.com/Knowledge/June-2010/How-to-Break-Nylon-Dyneema%C2%AE-Slings

The test involved static falls onto a sling, much like if you clipped in with a long sling at a belay and then fell, but it's pretty eye opening about the respective forces generated by dyneema vs. nylon.  

BTW, this thread is making my jealous.  I was in the Dolomites for several days on my honeymoon.  While my wife and I were able to do some hiking and a via ferrata, it was tough being surrounded by some much awesome looking climbing and not being able to touch it.  I did spend a couple of weeks at Arco a number of years ago.  You could have a great time there if the weather is a problem. There's also great mt. biking and water sports at Lago di Garda. Regardless, I am sure you will have an amazing time.  

I go to the Dolomites occasionally (I live 4 hours away). A normal rack is half-set of nuts, 3 or 4 cams fingers to fists and maybe ten slings. Some of the bolts are so big you have to sling then and a lot of the pins are bent. Forget all that crap about not girth hitching them, there isn't a piton in the Dolomites strong enough to ever break a sling. Wear a hat.
October can be anything weather wise but normally freezing at night so anything north facing may be frozen. It's kinda normal to be sweating in 25C then go round a corner to iced-up cracks.
If you go off the trade/guide routes then a few knife blades and a hammer in your pack is an intelligent move when things don't go to plan.

Another vote for a single rack, or 1/2 rack. The issue isn't so much that there is lots of fixed protection (although there is), but very few places to actually place gear... On most climbs I did I placed a maximum of one piece per pitch mostly due to lack of quality placements. You could place more, but mostly it would be purely mental pro which would just cause lots of rockfall if you actually fell on it. The single rack (vs. half rack) is mostly to give you more of a safety margin if you get really off route.

Single rack, double ropes is the standard in Dolomites. Fixed protections are mostly old pitons on the classic, but there are now quite a few bolted multipitch routes (although bolts might not be that close).
Climbing in October is feasible, the weather has to cooperate, you better stay in the sun (i.e., est/south facing walls) and adjust for shorter days (i.e., no big walls). More than to sling pitons, kevlar or cordelettes can be useful for natural protection (you push them through loops in the rock - some walls have quite a few of those features)

Ben Horowitz wrote: Another vote for a single rack, or 1/2 rack. The issue isn't so much that there is lots of fixed protection (although there is), but very few places to actually place gear... On most climbs I did I placed a maximum of one piece per pitch mostly due to lack of quality placements. You could place more, but mostly it would be purely mental pro which would just cause lots of rockfall if you actually fell on it. The single rack (vs. half rack) is mostly to give you more of a safety margin if you get really off route.

Out of curiosity what rts are you referring to that you could only get a single piece of gear in a full pitch..?