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John RB
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Jul 1, 2019
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Boulder, CO
· Joined Oct 2016
· Points: 194
I'm sure this topic has been visited a million times but I searched and couldn't find anything. Sorry if I missed an old thread.
Ok, so... I can do my project, but I can't let go and clip the chains. I could lick the chains, but I can't clip them (the "chains" here are two steel fixed biners). Options: - Extend the chains with a long sling that I can clip from below, take there and call it good
- Extend the chains with a sling, then do the last two moves of the route and call it good
- Put a draw on the chains and just clip that (which is easier than clipping a fixed biner) and call it good
- Get stronger and clip one of the fixed biners and count it
- Get stronger and clip both biners
- Climb past the anchor, up over the lip, then reach back down and clip from above
To be clear: I'm not sponsored, I'm not a professional climber, and no one besides me cares what I do or if it "counts" or not. But I'm wondering what the standard "ethic" here is for finishing a route. The last two options above are obviously legit and I know some people who've done the route both of those ways, but I'm currently too weak to do either. Kind of sucks that the crux of the route for me is clipping the freaking anchor. But I'm guessing this isn't the first time this has happened.
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Jon Rhoderick
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Jul 1, 2019
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Redmond, OR
· Joined Jul 2009
· Points: 966
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Mark A
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Jul 1, 2019
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Golden, CO
· Joined Jun 2016
· Points: 96
Bite one of the chains...free hand
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Rollin
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Jul 1, 2019
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SLC, UT
· Joined Jul 2015
· Points: 974
Option 7: Slap chains, victory whip, count it!
But for real, in that situation, I'd probably just put a quickdraw on the anchor and clip that. Seems that most elite climbers will count it if they clip just one of the biners at the anchor.
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Soft Catch
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Jul 1, 2019
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Oct 2018
· Points: 0
Russ Walling wrote: #4, 5, AND 6
Mostly #5 You actually counted them?
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Danny Sandoval
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Jul 1, 2019
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Bishop
· Joined Apr 2016
· Points: 106
Sloppy Second wrote: You actually counted them? is counting to 6 a difficult task for you?
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Roots
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Jul 1, 2019
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Wherever I am
· Joined Dec 2010
· Points: 20
I usually clip a draw to one of the chains (or hangers) and then clip the rope.
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Jon Frisby
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Jul 1, 2019
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Feb 2013
· Points: 280
once again, style, not ethics
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Soft Catch
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Jul 1, 2019
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Oct 2018
· Points: 0
Danny Sandoval wrote: is counting to 6 a difficult task for you? Nope. Even easier when I can dupe someone into doing it for me.
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Andy Eiter
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Jul 1, 2019
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Madison, WI
· Joined Jul 2014
· Points: 276
Depending on the season, licking the chain would freeze your tongue to the metal, which would be aid.
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Mark E Dixon
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Jul 1, 2019
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Possunt, nec posse videntur
· Joined Nov 2007
· Points: 984
John, are you projecting Sucking my Will to Live?
If so, I think you kind of need to clip the anchors to count it. IIRC, though, hanging a single normal quickdraw on the anchor doesn't change the difficulty of clipping, so that should be alright.
I have a friend who hung a long alpine draw on the anchors (for his wife) to mitigate the fall at the top, but she didn't count the send till she climbed past the anchors and clipped. It can be a painful fall if you miss the hold above the lip and have any sideways momentum during the drop. Right into that ramp...ouch.
Otherwise, I'd suggest choosing what you think is best practice for calling it a send and sticking with that on every route. Now and in the future. I used to think I had to clip both anchors, but since the pros only clip one, I'm reconsidering.
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Matt Wetmore
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Jul 1, 2019
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NYC
· Joined May 2017
· Points: 520
If you have to ask I think you know the answer.
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John RB
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Jul 2, 2019
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Boulder, CO
· Joined Oct 2016
· Points: 194
Jon Frisby wrote: once again, style, not ethics Huh? Normally, in the 1980s at least, things like pre-placing gear and rehearsing moves were called "ethics" in the climbing world. I agree that "style" is a better term linguistically, but traditionally it's called "ethics", no?
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John RB
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Jul 2, 2019
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Boulder, CO
· Joined Oct 2016
· Points: 194
Mark E Dixon wrote: John, are you projecting Sucking my Will to Live? Power Trip in CCC. There's a decent right hand to the right of the anchor, but I can't hold it and clip when coming from the ground... too pumped. I know at least two people who climb past it and then reach down to clip. Otherwise, I'd suggest choosing what you think is best practice for calling it a send and sticking with that on every route. Now and in the future. I used to think I had to clip both anchors, but since the pros only clip one, I'm reconsidering.
I feel like I should be clipping both biners to "count" it. My partner does it easily... but then he's done laps on this thing in flip-flops. :/
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Marc801 C
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Jul 2, 2019
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Sandy, Utah
· Joined Feb 2014
· Points: 65
John RB wrote: I feel like I should be clipping both biners to "count" it. Nah. Be serious!
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pfwein Weinberg
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Jul 2, 2019
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Boulder, CO
· Joined May 2006
· Points: 71
This applies equally to me: "I'm not sponsored, I'm not a professional climber, and no one besides me cares what I do or if it "counts" or not."
But my $.02: I'm a little surprised by some people's take that you need to clip two anchors at the top of a route to call it a send (instead of one).
My reasoning is that there doesn't need to be two anchors: there only needs to be one (assuming the climb doesn't top out, in which case there may be zero). The second is just a safety redundancy. In some parts of the world (as I understand it), they don't even bother to install two anchors, so I suppose everyone would agree that clipping one would then suffice. Likewise, I've seen routes with three (or more?) bolts, generally when someone has added a new bolt to an older set. Would you then need to clip all 3 (or more) to count your send? I'd also happily lower of a single anchor point (being backed up by the next lower bolt)--the extra bolt is more of a convenience / toproping thing, and seems extraneous to a lead. Can I count my 1-clip "send" if I just ignore the 2nd anchor? Or equalize the anchor with a big steel biner that is intended to be used as a single lowering point (which was common at an area I was at in Italy years ago)? I often don't clip the rope into both anchor points just to speed up cleaning--clip the rope into one point, myself into the other (with a sling), then clean.
To the extent I care, I could take some comfort that my view seems to be consistent with what most high-level climbers do, but that's mostly a coincidence from my perspective. I did it "my way" for years without even knowing this was even an issue or that anyone considered you need to clip two anchors for the send.
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Sam M
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Jul 2, 2019
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Portland, OR
· Joined Oct 2017
· Points: 30
You sent. Clip it however you want and move on.
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Jonathan Brown
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Jul 2, 2019
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Salt Lake City, UT
· Joined Mar 2019
· Points: 0
I used to call it climbed once you kissed the chain... until the time I lost my footing while kissing the chain once & gave myself a fat lip. I still counted it as climbed.
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