Which torque wrench should I get?

We can find the same torque wrench discussion on every car forum, in the oil change thread.

Jim Titt wrote: The article linked to isn't quite correct, for wedge bolts the tightening torque makes no difference to the strength/pullout values.

The PDF at the link lists the recommended tightening torque based on the quality of several different mediums of concrete, concrete over steel, etc. as well as the density of the medium and shear vs pullout strength...I don't understand how recommended tightening torque makes no difference to the strength/pullout values...how are the values to be interpreted? It would seem that torque spec would be especially pertinent to the pullout value...currently working with a soft sandstone and need all of the clarification I can find re. pullout strength due to bolt placement angles not always being able to be oriented in horizontal shear planes...thanks for your clarification

Mtn Ape XL wrote:

The PDF at the link lists the recommended tightening torque based on the quality of several different mediums of concrete, concrete over steel, etc. as well as the density of the medium and shear vs pullout strength...I don't understand how recommended tightening torque makes no difference to the strength/pullout values...how are the values to be interpreted? It would seem that torque spec would be especially pertinent to the pullout value...currently working with a soft sandstone and need all of the clarification I can find re. pullout strength due to bolt placement angles not always being able to be oriented in horizontal shear planes...thanks for your clarification

The pdf for Powers bolts? Nothing to do with wedge bolts.

For those commented on buying a snap on, know that CDI is actually a division of snap on and their torque wrenches are 1/3 to 1/2 the cost. Internally the components that matter are completely identical, it's the ratchet mechanism in the head that's different on the CDI. If you were exposing them to constant use 40 hours a week the snap on ratchet mechanism is more durable, but we're not, so save your money.

For suppliers to other big tool companies "gearwrench" is the manufacture for Matco.

Precision Instruments used to supply snap on.

A "split beam" (not in any way related to the old straight beam style) can be left at any setting without throwing off calibration and they tend to keep accuracy longer with no spring tension issues that you get from the standard micrometer style "click" wrench. Split beam on left, mic on the right.
 

Final note, wrenches tend to be more inaccurate at the bottom of their range. This is especially true for the most common micrometer style "click" wrenches. I would absolutely not buy a wrench with a 20-100ft lb range for stainless hardware, guarantee you're going to end up over tightening fasteners if you get a cheap wrench (harbor freight) in that range. Look for one with a range more on the 100-500/750 inch pound range. This is 8-50/63ft lbs. All those manufacturers have 3/8" drive wrenches in that range.  

All of them.

You'll need the 1/4" drive inch-pound wrench for a lot of things on your motorcycle, and also for the carbide knives on a Byrd jointer or planer head. You'll need the big 1/2" one for the control arm bolts on your Toyota truck. And you'll need the 3/8" for everything else.

Paul Morrison wrote: All of them.

You'll need the 1/4" drive inch-pound wrench for a lot of things on your motorcycle, and also for the carbide knives on a Byrd jointer or planer head. You'll need the big 1/2" one for the control arm bolts on your Toyota truck. And you'll need the 3/8" for everything else.

Don't forget you need add in a 1/2" drive of some type of angle style now with all the new vehicles. 

Yannick Gingras wrote: I'm pretty convinced that using a torque wrench is a good idea.  For some reason, however, I can't seem to find one that would be nice to lug around.

1/4 drive are nice and compact, but they don't go to 25 ft-lb;
3/8 drive click style: most go to 20 ft-lb, the ones that do go to 25 are really pricey;
3/8 drive needle style: cheap and covers the range, but very long and probably a pain to carry;
1/2 drive click style: just the opposite of 3/8, you need to pay quite a premium to get one that goes as low as 25 ft-lb.

So I'm leaning towards the needle style wrench, but I'm curious: what does everyone use?

Where are you seeing that 3/8 drive don't go above 25 unless you spend $$?  all the 3/8 torque wrenches I've owned/seen have gone to 100 or so.  One of my 1/2 drives does 50-250 ftlb and my digital I think does 5-250 ftlbs (might not go that low but I think it does)

I have a 3/8 snap on that does 20-100 and my digital does 5-probably 100 ft lbs  can't recall I usually leave it set in NM yay metric system

as I said before don't buy the harbor freight one.  Not accurate, not reliable.  Everyone that says go harbor freight has not used a good wrench and I doubt has put that pos on a calibration checker.

if you wanna go click type like someone mentioned CDI is a good option for the money.  I forgot about those.

I wonder if anyone makes one for like bridge construction or radio tower guys with a tie in point, that would be cool.

oh and as someone said above split beam wrenches are great, but I have a snap on 3/8 split beam and it that's the one that doesn't go below 20 (20-100) I haven't seen another size, maybe it exists, I don't know.

https://www.eastwood.com/digital-electronic-torque-angle-wrench-3-8in-drive.html

I use the 1/2 version of that for car stuff, and it works well.  I can't vouch for the accuracy, but I have used it on important things like head bolts and crank bolts, so a gross error would have led to problems.

Jeremy R wrote: OP, what convinced you that a torque wrench is essential? Just curious if there's a specific failure you're aware of? I've never seen anyone use one, and never used one myself.

Not OP, but can answer for them. With stainless being used now you're looking at a torque spec of 25ft-lbs instead of the 45ft-lbs on the old carbon steel bolts. There's just not as much wiggle room at such a low force and it's damn hard to judge that low. I would love to see all the internet experts who think their hands are calibrated try to repeatedly shoot for 25ft lbs on a torque analyzer, the range of error you get going by feel is a hell of a lot higher than everyone thinks. Doing this with automotive techs we found that most had a decent feel for 60-100lb range, but even the best were only about 10% accurate. Above and below things were all over the place. 

 So why does it matter? Go under on torque and you have a very weak fastener, but that doesn't mean tighter is better. Over tighten a fastener and you actually end up with less tensile strength (ie a weaker bolt). Here's a simple chart showing the relationship between clamp load (tightness) on the X axis and tension (strength) on the Y axis. 

FWIW I used to build race engines for a living, I've tightened thousands of bolts both with and without a torque wrench. If I was just putting in carbon steel bolts at 45lbs I might not bother with a torque wrench. For stainless I wouldn't consider not using one. 

Having watched a couple of torque wrenches hit the dirt from up high, I can say with assurance that the best thing for a climber is the dirt cheap 3/8" micrometer style from Harbor Freight. One thing most folks don't know, YOU MUST TAKE THE TENSION OFF WHEN YOU STORE THEM. So crank the lbs down close to zero when you put it away. BTW, I have a calibrated Snap on Needle style at work to do a rough comparison on to check calibration.

The last one that got dropped was some snazzy electric digital model that was at least 1/2 the weight of the 3/8" HF and must have cost buddy a fortune. But when it augered into the rocks from @ 600 feet up (there were 3 of us and I didn't drop it this time:-)  it no worky no mo.

BTW, as Jeff noted above, just because a torque wrench is recommended doesn't mean a 3/8" put in by hand will ever fail. 3/8" is overkill for what we do, 1/2" even more so. Wedge anchors tighten up when you put tension onto them. That said, I like to torque them down to spec.

I expect to get some crap from this, no worries, I may even deserve the MP thrashing.  When you develop a route it is often a ton of shit you are hauling and often some distance.  So I go as light as I can.  
I started working in construction when I was 11 and that was over 50 years ago.  I also know a bit about the subject of Physics and have placed my share of bolts.  Those experiences and training have led me to  use one of the wrenches seen in the pic. (size depends on the bolt being used).  I bend them in a horizontal crack to minimize knuckle damage
Most likely all bolts will become spinners at some point unless they rusted tight, and that is another issue.  But most of my "hand jobs" have stayed true.  Do not get me

started on the posts I see about folks whining about spinners.  Just fix it and move on!  An adjustable wrench in your pack or a cleaning tool with nut holes will solve so many, too many, posts on this inevitable issue. 

Jeffrey Constine wrote: How many bolts have pulled out with people on them virtually none it’s almost unheard of, so talk all you want about torquing bolts. If bolts were constantly pulling out with people on them then there would be an issue.

I've broken bolts that were installed wrong by falling on them. More than one, in fact. I use a torque wrench.

I think the answer on that one is pretty simple, we're using fasteners that are far stronger than the loads we impose on them. Allowable load of 3.5" 1/2SS powers at 6k psi (hard rock) in shear is 2,695lb, or 12kn, tension (for caves) would clock in around 11kn. Ultimate load though you're looking at 48kn. Basically the bolts we're putting in have a large enough margin of error that we haven't exceeded it on the regular.

It will be interesting to see what happens in time though, it's pretty recently that most really switched to stainless with the lower torque. Taking your own quote, "I'm always more concerned about over torquing a wedge bolt than under torquing." That's my concern to use a torque wrench with SS. Just want to make sure I don't overdo it.

Billcoe wrote:
the best thing for a climber is the dirt cheap 3/8" micrometer style from Harbor Freight. 

Argh no! That POS is what spurned my post today, for once in my life I decided to go cheap on a tool and got one of these just for climbing. Damn thing did not click at 25lbs and I knew I was exceeding that. Tried it on a torque analyzer at work, set at 25 it clicked around 38. It was never dropped and fresh off the shelf (so not stored with the dial up). 

If you have a decent quality wrench that suffers a hit  (not major external damage from a huge drop) it's worth sending in for calibration. My company uses team torque in Bismark, ND for repair/calibration. They can do most any major brand, rates are reasonable and turn around is good. 

Been following this with interest. What do you think of the wrenches that are pre-set to a specific torque setting at the factory? I'd have it set to 25 ft. lb. for installing stainless steel bolts, and would be willing to sacrifice $ and torque range for a shorter, lighter tool that does the job. CDI makes a couple that are interesting:

• This one is only 6.2" long and weighs 3/4 lb. (but it would have to be set at the top of its range of 60-300 in. lb. = 5-25 ft. lb.).
• This one is 11" long and weighs 1.4 lbs with torque set at the lower end of the range of 15-75 ft. lb.

Based on what Zachs wrote earlier about accuracy being less at the lower end of the torque range, I don't know why the smaller of the two wouldn't be a good option . . .

I seriously can’t believe you guys use torque wrenches for expansion bolts.  I know the concern of over torqueing and all but it seems amazing to me that a climber that would go to the lengths of drilling but didn’t have the mechanical common sense to have an idea or feeling of what an ideal torque would be for an expansion bolt

Climberdude wrote: I seriously can’t believe you guys use torque wrenches for expansion bolts.  I know the concern of over torqueing and all but it seems amazing to me that a climber that would go to the lengths of drilling but didn’t have the mechanical common sense to have an idea or feeling of what an ideal torque would be for an expansion bolt

Climberdude, Nick's first post above addresses the notion of "mechanical common sense." I'd be interested to know what you think of that post, which seems to be based on a fair amount of climbing and mechanical experience, and is well reasoned, too. 

There are others of us who are just getting started and will, over our lifetime, install 10's not 100's of bolts. To compensate for our lower level of experience we will exercise more conservatism around best practices. Not sure what there is to object to in that regard.

My prior post was an attempt at better way, i.e. the CDI pre-set wrenches, enabling one to carry a torque wrench up the wall that doesn't weigh a whole lot more than a regular combination wrench. I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on that.

Climberdude wrote: I seriously can’t believe you guys use torque wrenches for expansion bolts.  I know the concern of over torqueing and all but it seems amazing to me that a climber that would go to the lengths of drilling but didn’t have the mechanical common sense to have an idea or feeling of what an ideal torque would be for an expansion bolt

The adequate tension required for proper installation of a 3/8 SS stud is so low I guarantee most people with mechanical common sense (whatever that means) will overtorque it to the point of failure. I've gone back and forth between 1/2 and 3/8 SS studs and my internal calibration isn't good enough to be confident I'm not fucking up my 3/8 studs. Do you want that in the back of your mind when you're cruxing out a ways above a bolt?

Andy Wiesner wrote:

Climberdude, Nick's first post above addresses the notion of "mechanical common sense." I'd be interested to know what you think of that post, which seems to be based on a fair amount of climbing and mechanical experience, and is well reasoned, too. 

There are others of us who are just getting started and will, over our lifetime, install 10's not 100's of bolts. To compensate for our lower level of experience we will exercise more conservatism around best practices. Not sure what there is object to in that regard.

My prior post was an attempt at better way, i.e. the CDI pre-set wrenches, enabling one to carry a torque wrench up the wall that doesn't weigh a whole lot more than a regular combination wrench. I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on that.

If you have such limited knowledge, you probably shouldn’t be installing bolts without someone who knows what the fuck they are doing. 

Harbor freight torque wrenches are fine until they fail and someone doesn’t notice. Snap-On, Porto, Mac, all are decent and likeMentioned need to be store and taken care of properly.
Summary: if you don’t know how to use a torque wrench or instal a bolt, maybe let someone else do it or learn from someone. That being said, I have installed 1000’s of bolts all of which need to pass a load test. I have never had one fail from over tightening. 

Andy, I respectfully understand where your coming from.  I just don’t think of a torque wrench being part of a climbers kit.  I wonder what these folks contemplating bringing a torque wrench would do when they had to nail a route or even a single piton.  Would they smash the shit out of it till it bent over?  The best skill a climber can possess is common sense.  Without that they are a safety hazard to themselves and others, especially if they are bolting.