Anchoring to trees... I've asked this question already.

The reason I'm bring this up again is because I was harassed by another climber at Peterskill, a woman struggling to complete a 5.7 on TR... Not that it matters, but it does. She was so damn arrogant!!!!! She royally pissed me off. People like her are the reason why I have trouble making climbing friends!

She asked me where I learned to tie to trees. I had no idea what the hell she was meaning. I said I taught myself. She then goes on and on about how the trees are protected and that I shouldn't be anchoring to trees and that I should be using gear instead. I told her that I talked to people online about this (mountain project forum) and said that sport rappeling wasnt allowed, which we were not doing. She so arrogantly said i know what's not allowed because she read or wrote some documentation or something. She then says... If your going to tie to trees it better to wrap the tree three times and lock it up with a biner, "but what you did is ok, but my way is better. Ok bye have fun!"........... She walks away and im thinking what the f$@% just happened??? Myself and my climbing partner was so confused as to what just happened. I ran a single static line around the tree with a triple bowline knot. That's it. It was equalized and not going to move at all. 

I dropped my s$@% and literally stormed my way to rangers office to ask her about the topic so I know exactly what's going on. The ranger woman behind the desk initially said no anchoring to trees. She said there are bolts. I said there are bolts but not a lot of bolts. I said there are a lot of people up there and not all of them are using bolts. She looked like she didnt really know. She grabbed a pamphlet and began looking through it. I told her ive been climbing here for a couple of years and have no been damaging trees. She then found the portion of the pamphlet that meantioned anchoring to trees. It was so vague!!! It didnt mention any specific type of tree. It basically said that damaging the bark coupd lead to killing the tree. It said at all possible do not girth hitch trees, which is basically what that cocky wowan suggested that I do!!! It also said no sport rappeling.

I told the ranger person exactly how I'm tying to the trees and she looked at me and said as long as your not damaging the trees it ok. I said im not. I kept the pamphlet just in case someone else harassed me about it. I walked the trail up top and there were tree anchors everywhere!!!

People like her make it extremely hard to be friendly with other climbers. They act like they are friggin know it all's and they love making sure everyone knows it!

I know I'm going to get harassed for posting this..... But it obvious I do not care! It angers me some but I do not care.

Gym muscles over and out......

Top rope police, can't live with em, can't shoot em

From the MP Peterskill description:

Peterskill is home to the globally-rare Ridgeline Dwarf Pitch Pine - in fact, it's one of the largest stands of Pitch Pines in the United States; consequently, Minnewaska State Park has declared the Pitch Pines as protected, and not to be used in any way as part of an anchor. If you don't know what a Pitch Pine looks like, then don't use ANY coniferous (pine) trees, just to be safe. Also, any tree used in an anchor should be padded in some way to protect against rope damage. Failure to comply with these rules can and will result in the closing of Peterskill to climbing.

Sounds like she was right on the money.

ubu wrote: From the MP Peterskill description:Sounds like she was right on the money.

Well everyone is using them and she was still an arrogant pos. If they are so rare and protected, they should install more bolts. I'm not against bolting nor do I want to hurt the trees... I'll start padding those trees. 

Buff Johnson wrote: Top rope police, can't live with em, can't shoot em

Amen.

CVRIV wrote:

Well everyone is using them and she was still an arrogant pos. If they are so rare and protected, they should install more bolts. I'm not against bolting nor do I want to hurt the trees... I'll start padding those trees. 

I think a lot of people approach this problem at Peter's Kill by bringing 100' of static line along. This can almost always get you to a deciduous tree (and therefore not a pitch pine) or non-endangered pine, and in many cases is enough to get two suitable trees if you want 2x(totally bomber). Very frequently quicker than a gear anchor too. 

So, someone calls you out for not following the rules, which are confirmed by a ranger as well as the MP overview, and the problem is that she was "arrogant" for pointing out your mistake?  Sounds like you might want to look inward on this one.

ubu wrote: So, someone calls you out for not following the rules, which are confirmed by a ranger as well as the MP overview, and the problem is that she was "arrogant" for pointing out your mistake?  Sounds like you might want to look inward on this one.

I did and the woman at the ranger station said it was fine as long as I wasnt damaging the trees. She was arrogant as hell. Even if I was misinformed there are better ways to go about telling me about it. Arrogance will get you no where with me. Obviously I wanted to know what the truth is seeing that I brought myself to ask a ranger in person. If your defending her mannerisms then you can eat s$%& too. 

You had better lose the sensitivity or else consider moving back to Mayberry where everyone meets your standards. Looking inward is solid advise

m Mobes wrote: You had better lose the sensitivity or else consider moving back to Mayberry where everyone meets your standards. Looking inward is solid advise

So as long as I allow people to talk to me in a demeaning way I can stay? 

I asked, on this site, where to buy Trax rubber, so I can resole my shoes myself. That's all I asked. You know what the first reply was? Trax rubber sucks, basically. After that it was nothing more than people going on back and forth why trax sucks and C4 is good. I dont know why I thought I would find out where to buy trax rubber. This is basically how its been for me with climbing people. 

Oh internet....

It takes a lot for a toprope anchor to fatally girdle a tree, much more than just wrapping a static line around it.  The crag-police lady was correct in saying you should do a couple wraps of the rope around the trunk; that just decreases rope movement and keeps it more in place.

That said, the true damage of tying anchors around trees at popular areas is damage to their roots over the years in a clifftop environment where there is usually not a whole bunch of soil before you hit bedrock. Ground cover gets killed, roots get exposed, erosion increases, and even runoff of dirt down onto the routes during rainstorms can become an issue.  In this case, you're better off tromping around areas farther back from the cliff and using the aforementioned 100 ft of static line.  Or just lead a climb and set up a gear anchor.

Pnelson wrote: It takes a lot for a toprope anchor to fatally girdle a tree, much more than just wrapping a static line around it.  The crag-police lady was correct in saying you should do a couple wraps of the rope around the trunk; that just decreases rope movement and keeps it more in place.

That said, the true damage of tying anchors around trees at popular areas is damage to their roots over the years in a clifftop environment where there is usually not a whole bunch of soil before you hit bedrock. Ground cover gets killed, roots get exposed, erosion increases, and even runoff of dirt down onto the routes during rainstorms can become an issue.  In this case, you're better off tromping around areas farther back from the cliff and using the aforementioned 100 ft of static line.  Or just lead a climb and set up a gear anc

I personally believe the whole root system of a tree is pretty dang burly compared to the bark. Erosion is bad but how many trees are dying at the base of the cliffs where people trample them all day long compared to the middle and top where people TR and rap off them? At places like the Gunks where there are more climbers per route than most places in the world its the middle and top trees that are hating life and their root system is frequently down in the cracks away from foot traffic.

and yeah, if it wasnt wrapped a few times the police lady was just trying to help the obvious nO0b just like people were saying to avoid trax rubber.

This thread isn't about climbing, it's about butt hurt.

m Mobes wrote:

I personally believe the whole root system of a tree is pretty dang burly compared to the bark. Erosion is bad but how many trees are dying at the base of the cliffs where people trample them all day long compared to the middle and top where people TR and rap off them? At places like the Gunks where there are more climbers per route than most places in the world its the middle and top trees that are hating life and their root system is frequently down in the cracks away from foot traffic.

Actually, trees at cliff bases are getting obliterated at most popular climbing areas as well.  Basically every forested crag has a ton of roots exposed at the base, and it's not sustainable in the long run.  Clifftops are particularly susceptible, however, due to the shallowness of the soil that I mentioned originally.

(I'm not an expert, btw, I'm just repeating what I've heard from researchers who look at both clifftop and cliffbase ecology at the New River Gorge.  It has nothing to do with "personal belief.")

As long as it wasn't tied to a pitch pine (endangered) or a conifer for that matter you're fine. 3 wraps with a 'biner seems exessive. I use 2 wraps with a bowline and I haven't died yet so....

And people are gonna tell you that what you are doing is wrong all the time so getting mad ain't gonna help nobody

We all have heard experts, we have a bunch here. I see way more dead trees mid and top than I do at the bases but NY is quire different from a WV rain forest

She'd have a heyday at Paradise Forks

Tradiban wrote: This thread isn't about climbing, it's about butt hurt.

For once I agree with this man.

Get use to it at the Gunks, old timers like to spray their knowledge to the noobs. Just smile and thank them and keep doing you. It's also good to learn different techniques, I personally do the wrap 3 pull 2 with webbing on trees, save material and easier to take apart than a wrapped up static line. You should be at a level that you're not making questionable anchors when you go outside, so keep learning more. Dont get discouraged. Then one day you'll be that lady telling someone they are doing something wrong. Then come to MP and give us more interesting content.