Advice on building longer woody around ceiling joists

Hi all,
   I'm hoping to get advice from those who have built a home woody on how to maximize space/fun. I have a garage with ceiling joists 8.5 feet up, but a taller A-frame ceiling. I'd like to build a 40 degree 8x12 wall (moon/tension board size) partially because I like the idea of eventually using a setup with standardized problems to combat setter fatigue, and it seems like the best trade-off between climbing space/angle and ease of construction.
   My issue is fitting the wall between the joists. I can get the full 12 feet + 9.5 inch kicker if I angle the wall between the ceiling joists like in the photo (ignore the garage door opener, the real wall would be one joist inward). Has anyone done this? It seems like it would make construction a fair bit more challenging. And even if I padded the joist just past the wall, I worry about latching a finishing jug and swinging and slamming against it, or hitting my head on it. Is this a terrible idea?

   Alternatively, I could construct a 50-degree wall, though I worry that would feel too steep to set a variety of problem types, or a shorter 40-degree wall just to the joists, but I worry the climbing area would feel too short. Lastly, I could go all out and build an outdoor adjustable angle board, but I worry about construction complexity and weatherproofing. Any advice?

Andrew Mertens wrote: Hi all,
   I'm hoping to get advice from those who have built a home woody on how to maximize space/fun. I have a garage 

Okay, to maximize fun... your garage will be too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer.  So to maximize you'll need to insulate the garage, be able to heat it in the winter and cool it (fans usually are enough) in the summer.  I've built two gyms in garages in FTC over the years, both insulated, but now mine's in my basement; good temps year round.  

with ceiling joists 8.5 feet up, but a taller A-frame ceiling. I'd like to build a 40 degree 8x12 wall (moon/tension board size) partially because I like the idea of eventually using a setup with standardized problems to combat setter fatigue, and it seems like the best trade-off between climbing space/angle and ease of construction.
   My issue is fitting the wall between the joists. I can get the full 12 feet + 9.5 inch kicker if I angle the wall between the ceiling joists like in the photo (ignore the garage door opener, the real wall would be one joist inward). Has anyone done this? It seems like it would make construction a fair bit more challenging. And even if I padded the joist just past the wall, I worry about latching a finishing jug and swinging and slamming against it, or hitting my head on it. Is this a terrible idea?

Yeah, continuing between the trusses you'll probably hit your hands and/or head in several scenarios.  Why don't you just go straight up a few feet (two more moves or so, but your head stays below the bottom of the truss) at the last joist?   You don't want to go much higher because you'll hit your back/head on the next truss if you fall.  Or put in a horizontal roof section?

   Alternatively, I could construct a 50-degree wall, though I worry that would feel too steep to set a variety of problem types, or a shorter 40-degree wall just to the joists, but I worry the climbing area would feel too short. 

50 is too steep for a lot of reasons.   Just set your PE problems to angle across the board, go in circles, zig-zags, etc.  I think you'll find it's plenty high as long as you have some width. Oh, BTW, 9.5" kicker sounds just a bit too small to me, unless you have really small feet.  I'd go with 12" minimum.

Lastly, I could go all out and build an outdoor adjustable angle board, but I worry about construction complexity and weatherproofing. Any advice?

It should be obvious: you want your gym useable when the weather is bad.

Thanks John, that is all super useful and exactly the advice I needed,
   Andrew

I'm a contractor, but not your contractor...

You might consider removing a truss or two to give you the clearance you need at the top of the wall and also give you room for a taller kicker.

To do that, you'd need to add new rafters and collar ties to carry the load of the eliminated truss. Don't just simply cut out the bottom chord or web of any trusses, or you'll weaken the structure. A competent carpenter should be able to knock that out in a day and charge $350-$500. If a friend asked me about that job, I'd do it for beers on a weekend and access to the woody.

As for heating and cooling, a forced-air propane heater and fans worked just fine for me in an unfinished space here in Chattanooga.

bs.johnson wrote:
As for heating and cooling, a forced-air propane heater and fans worked just fine for me in an unfinished space here in Chattanooga.

I don't think Chattanooga is all that much warmer than here, so maybe your hands are better in the cold than mine.   

My previous gym was insulated but the heat wasn't on all the time, like a detached garage.  Thus, when I'd go there in the winter on days with temps in the teens and twenties, the holds were in the teens and twenties too. I'd arrive, turn on the lights and heaters, do jumping jacks on the pads to warm up (wearing 5 layers), and it still took about an hour before I could realistically drop layers and not have my hands go numb from grabbing the holds.   I'd get cold feet too.    The air warms up pretty fast, but the holds not so much.  Just FYI.

Another note on heating from John's note there. If it's a limited space (ie single to two car garage with some level of insulation/air sealing) you can set up fan forced heaters on a programmable thermostat. Set it to come on a few hours before your session on the 5/2 program the night before, you can quickly toggle back through to establish a minimum temp for the rest of the week. While 240 would be better you can set these up on a 110 circuit also. King and cadet are the two most popular options for fan forced heaters here in the NW. 

https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-RLV4305A1000-E1-Rlv4305A1000-Programmable/dp/B008DF626K/ref=asc_df_B008DF626K/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167116234959&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4686659332370086495&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1027615&hvtargid=pla-308511242090&psc=1

While you will probably be fine, you may want to calculate how much your woody will weigh and determine how much of that will be transferred to the truss in both the vertical and horizontal directions.. The trusses in your picture look like they are 2x4s on the bottom cord. Attaching an angled object will put a horizontal load on the trusses that could deflect them out of line. This can easily be mitigated by attaching the woody to more than one truss or adding bracing between the trusses so they can share the load.

Here is a good resource for figuring out the weight of your structure: engineeringtoolbox.com/gree…;

having built a campus board in a somewhat similar garage setup, and having a background in structural engineering, as well as having designed some similar home remodel stuff, etc - when i look at your photo i think you could potentially run into some problems.  generally that type of roof truss system is designed to use the bottom chord in tension to keep the walls from bowing out under the roof load.  it is more like a rafter tie, the interior truss members don't really do much.  this system isn't designed for the bottom chord (long, not laterally supported, small member size) to have much moment loading.  when you add up the weight of the total woody, it ends up being fairly heavy.  some of that weight will be ground supported, but figure about half of the weight will be on that one bottom chord.  will this rip the roof down?  probably not, but it will likely cause the roofline to sag, which will then likely lead to drainage/leaking problems, etc.

a few things that i did when i built mine:

• my roofline was already sagging, which is often the case with this type of garage - so i used a car jack and a long 4"x4" to jack the roofline a bit. i "over jacked" it a bit to create a small bit of camber.
• added sister chords to the bottom chords of 3 of the trusses (the one that is closest to the woody struts, and both of the adjacent ones - in your photo this would be the one on the left and the one with the electrical outlet)
• added some plywood gusset plates at the truss connection points to stiffen things up.
• use a pair of long 2"x8" members on top of the bottom chords, set-up in the perpendicular direction.  connect the woody struts to these 2"x8" members, and then let these members distribute the load to the 3 truss members that you beefed up.
• added sister beams to the roofline beam (ridge beam)
• added collar ties to the upper chord members
• released the roofline jack
• built the campus board

everything went really well, roofline was good, campus board was solid as a rock (no movement, no creaking, etc).  this sounds like a lot of work, but it was really easy to do with no help.

the real question is if this is worth doing with an 8.5' ceiling.  in both of the garages that i have done this (i forgot i did this at another home i owned a long time ago), my ceiling was 10 or maybe 11 feet, which worked pretty decent, but i wouldn't have wanted it to be less.  

slim wrote: having built a campus board in a somewhat similar garage setup, and having a background in structural engineering, as well as having designed some similar home remodel stuff, etc - when i look at your photo i think you could potentially run into some problems. generally that type of roof truss system is designed to use the bottom chord in tension to keep the walls from bowing out under the roof load. it is more like a rafter tie, the interior truss members don't really do much. this system isn't designed for the bottom chord (long, not laterally supported, small member size) to have much moment loading. when you add up the weight of the total woody, it ends up being fairly heavy. some of that weight will be ground supported, but figure about half of the weight will be on that one bottom chord. will this rip the roof down? probably not, but it will likely cause the roofline to sag, which will then likely lead to drainage/leaking problems, etc.

a few things that i did when i built mine:

• my roofline was already sagging, which is often the case with this type of garage - so i used a car jack and a long 4"x4" to jack the roofline a bit. i "over jacked" it a bit to create a small bit of camber.
• added sister chords to the bottom chords of 3 of the trusses (the one that is closest to the woody struts, and both of the adjacent ones - in your photo this would be the one on the left and the one with the electrical outlet)
• added some plywood gusset plates at the truss connection points to stiffen things up.
• use a pair of long 2"x8" members on top of the bottom chords, set-up in the perpendicular direction.  connect the woody struts to these 2"x8" members, and then let these members distribute the load to the 3 truss members that you beefed up.
• added sister beams to the roofline beam (ridge beam)
• added collar ties to the upper chord members
• released the roofline jack
• built the campus board

everything went really well, roofline was good, campus board was solid as a rock (no movement, no creaking, etc). this sounds like a lot of work, but it was really easy to do with no help.

the real question is if this is worth doing with an 8.5' ceiling.  in both of the garages that i have done this (i forgot i did this at another home i owned a long time ago), my ceiling was 10 or maybe 11 feet, which worked pretty decent, but i wouldn't have wanted it to be less.  

Could you provide a picture or something similar to what you did?  I am in a similar situation in my current garage with roof trusses and do not understand what you mean by adding sister cords, plywood gusset plates, using the pair of long 2x8s, and adding sister beams to the roofline? I have built three walls and a campus board in another garage that didnt have trusses so this challenge is new to me

Thanks

It's snow storms like we are having today that make some of the above advice suspect.  Just adding 2x collar ties and rafter ties is not likely a viable option here on the Colorado Front Range.  I realize this post is old but bad information needs to be dispelled.  Snow loads in Ft. Collins and Boulder are 30 psf if you are in town, and upwards of 50 psf in the foothills.  To remove the bottom cords from your trusses to transfer that will require large LVL's spanning the entire space to allow for adequate fastening to the top cords of the trusses.  You can't drill holes  through or modify trusses in any way without compromising their strength.The material costs for the timberloks and LVL's for just two trusses will likely run more than the $300 discussed.

As for reinforcing your existing trusses this is a much easier option, but Slim went overboard with his design.  That is what I would do to install an engine hoist to a truss because of the point load, climbing walls are more more forgivable as the wall itself becomes a diagonal brace/shear wall and a well built wall will distribute the load over a large area.  My walls can carry their own weight just through their wall attachment. (Edit: re-read Slims post and realized he was building a free hanging campus board, much different animal).

 Before modifying any truss you need to speak with an engineer, or hire a competent local contractor who has his own engineer to run loads.  I am such a contractor and specialize in home wall construction.  I have raised entire ceilings to maximize climbing space for a home gym.

Anyone remember all the collapsed structures back in the storm of 03?  Every where I looked some warehouse had collapsed.  Let's not permanently damage our homes just to get some bouldering in. I agree with all of John's advice regarding insulation and location.  I can consult on an outside structures as well but as you can see, no bouldering is happening here today...

.  

Thanks, Kevin. I ended up building one outside (and love it-have been bouldering all winter) and I'm still worried about all the snow on it. Glad I didn't try and alter the garage.