Placing Cams in Poured Concrete?

Probably a dumb question but does anyone know if using cams in reinforced concrete is OK?  There is this crack I've been climbing on a city bridge. It is stout reinforced poured concrete with good texture. Cams place good and feel fine. I'm 90% sure I won't die... Just never heard of anyone placing cams in urban settings. I've been practicing placing cams while top rope soloing and want to lead it now. Cheers!!
 

I wouldn't.  What you should do is join the North Texas AAC and meet up with the many active trad climbers that live in Dallas to get on the non-concrete/plastic rocks in the area

So you installed holds on the side of a bridge and set up a top rope??

Brad Johnson wrote: So you installed holds on the side of a bridge and set up a top rope??

To his credit this is an established "route" in Dallas......  Most of the gyms used to not have crack trainers so this was the go to spot until recently.  We're lacking an abundance of rocks with cracks in them around here....

some solid placements in the buildering realrock - https://vimeo.com/306521063

Brandon Lee wrote: some solid placements in the buildering realrock - https://vimeo.com/306521063

Bahahaha!! Awesome. I've done some stuff like that over the years. Never took it to that level though. Yeah if they are placing cams in brick I think the crack I was in is bomber.....comparatively

Chuck D wrote: I wouldn't.  What you should do is join the North Texas AAC and meet up with the many active trad climbers that live in Dallas to get on the non-concrete/plastic rocks in the area

Hmm... Right on. I've read a little about the them but haven't looked much, Thanks. I have looked into the North Texas Outdoor Pursuit guys up in Carrollton and they looked like an OK outfit.  I wanted to get decent/better before I connected with a big outdoor group. I have done the Grapvine summit cracks and built a crack machine in my yard. This was more(like I said) practicing. Also I'm newer to cracks so have to build those calluses...I hate tape and gloves and this crack is perfect for building calluses

Michael S wrote: Probably a dumb question but does anyone know if using cams in reinforced concrete is OK?  There is this crack I've been climbing on a city bridge. It is stout reinforced poured concrete with good texture. Cams place good and feel fine. I'm 90% sure I won't die... Just never heard of anyone placing cams in urban settings. I've been practicing placing cams while top rope soloing and want to lead it now. Cheers!!
 

The chances of the cams e.g. the gold Camalot we see in the pic - doing their job will improve if you down-angle the stem as you're supposed to, rather than having them poke +/- straight outward.

It's fine.  The biggest concern is how slick the concrete is and sometimes the cam will slip.   The other is expansion and contraction though probably really small may cause tipped out placements to fail.   In high school I climbed a Holiday Inn high-rise in Burbank using tow red Lowe Tri Cams and a set of aiders.   I made it to the top before the cops pulled up.
Be safe have fun.

Oh, yep, what Gunkiemike said, that cam placement is junk.

lmao

Test them in a controlled fall. It's on top rope so just place a piece near the top so you won't deck. Then have the belayer pay out enough slack so that the gear will catch before the rope. But not enough slack that you will deck if the gear pulls. And whip on that shit!

Best case gear holds and you get a slightly hard catch. Worst case gear pops and you "fall" a couple feet on top rope. Let us know the results!

If you are a climber living in Dallas, you gotta do what you gotta do.

Michael S wrote: Probably a dumb question but does anyone know if using cams in reinforced concrete is OK?  There is this crack I've been climbing on a city bridge. It is stout reinforced poured concrete with good texture. Cams place good and feel fine. I'm 90% sure I won't die... Just never heard of anyone placing cams in urban settings. I've been practicing placing cams while top rope soloing and want to lead it now. Cheers!!
 

It depends, not all concrete is the same. That looks like a facade, not structural.

Aren't bridges usually built with at least 5000psi concrete?  So on the softer side of the rock we climb on but still in the range of rock we climb.  If you would climb in moab/indian creek wouldn't you climb concrete.  Also most bolts we use are designed for construction and are subsequently rated based on placements in concrete.  

Maybe just don't run it out the way you can on good granite.  Most people don't go for massive run outs on soft sandstone either.

I would especially not be worried if its a hand crack like it looks.  There is a lot of surface area on #2 sized pieces, a lot of rock ...concrete would have to brake for it to fail, where as on good rock I can whip on a green c3 with very little surface contact.

But I've never personally climbed concrete so...

Tensile strength of concrete is only about 1/10 its compressive strength. Compressive strength of concrete in bridges is probably upward of 6,000psi, but it wouldn't be surprising if the facade had a weaker structure (e.g., if it serves a primarily aesthetic purpose). I'm not an engineer.

Speaking from 3+ years experience in reinforced concrete, this looks like an expansion joint on a bridge and is most definitely structural concrete (5,000psi or greater).  It doesn't mean the face of concrete is all that strong though cause it could've been weakened from freeze/thaw cycles or poor consolidation during the placement.  If it were me, I'd just top rope it, but hey... take a test whipper and see what happens!!

Joe Trabucco wrote: lmao

Thanks dude!! Must be nice living in Co.

Gunkiemike wrote:

The chances of the cams e.g. the gold Camalot we see in the pic - doing their job will improve if you down-angle the stem as you're supposed to, rather than having them poke +/- straight outward.

I accually placed them downward. They ended up rotating straght out as I pulled rope and clipped going up. Any way to keep them from rotating??

Kevin Mokracek wrote: It's fine.  The biggest concern is how slick the concrete is and sometimes the cam will slip.   The other is expansion and contraction though probably really small may cause tipped out placements to fail.   In high school I climbed a Holiday Inn high-rise in Burbank using tow red Lowe Tri Cams and a set of aiders.   I made it to the top before the cops pulled up.
Be safe have fun.

Oh, yep, what Gunkiemike said, that cam placement is junk.

I know the placement is crap. They worked from a downward angle to straight out as I pulled line and clipped. The concrete has an OK texture and not too smooth but not enough to keep the cams from rotating out, But they didn't walk just rotated. The crack itself is a flat parallel that slowly widens to the top.

Michael S wrote:

I know the placement is crap. They worked from a downward angle to straight out as I pulled line and clipped. The concrete has an OK texture and not too smooth but not enough to keep the cams from rotating out. The crack itself is a flat parallel that slowly widens to the top.

Sounds like some extension is needed if your seeing that

My buddy took a 20 footer on a classic parking-garage hand crack in Tucson.  His cam held.  (He was on a hip belay!)