Mountain Project Logo

The Ethics of Crack Gloves and Tape at Indian Creek

Original Post
Jack Cramer · · Mammoth Lakes, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 45

A popular current thread asks whether there’s an “ethics debate” over crack gloves. That thread, however, largely revolves around whether crack gloves are "cheating" compared to taped or bare hands. However, I think that debate would more accurately be referred to as one of style—how we climb. Ethics, in contrast, concerns how we treat the rock and the broader climbing environment.

In this thread I want to talk about the ethics of crack gloves (and tape) on soft rock, such as that found in Indian Creek, UT.

For those that are unaware, Indian Creek is perhaps America’s best crack climbing resource with a concentration of a couple thousand cracks that are often perfectly parallel. Although the Windgate sandstone there is frequently choss-free, it is soft enough that it can be worn away over time by ropes, gear, or even human hands and feet. Over decades some of the most popular routes have seen the size of the crack noticeably enlarged or their right-angle edges rounded off.

Let me first acknowledge that I’m not an Indian Creek local. But in my occasional experience there between 2011 and today I’ve observed considerable damage to the rock. Not to mention increasing impacts on the surrounding desert. If we climbers don’t get our act together, it’s possible we could soon see management action to restrict visitation, like the guide system at Hueco Tanks or the limited-entry permits of the Mt. Whitney zone.

I believe these kind of access restrictions are avoidable and we as a community should do everything we can to prevent them from becoming necessary. I further believe there is a simple policy that would go a long way to reduce Indian Creek impacts: a community-enforced prohibition on tape and crack gloves.  

Let me explain, I attribute the ongoing damage to two primary causes.

  1. Too much climbing (both the number of climbers, and the amount that each climber climbs)
  2. Poor crack climbing technique
The use of tape and crack gloves protects your hands/fingers from cuts and scrapes, allowing individual climbers to climb more. It also makes learning crack technique less painful, attracting the additional climbers who would otherwise be dissuaded due to the pain.

Thus, if tape and crack gloves were prohibited, we could immediately combat a primary cause--too much climbing.

The second primary cause of rock damage I listed above may be less obvious. Poor crack climbing technique damages soft rock when hand or foot jams slip against the side or edge of a crack and slowly wear it away. Sloppy footwork is certainly more harmful than sloppy hand/finger jams, but they often occur simultaneously when a climber gets on a route beyond their ability level.
Without tape or gloves, the rock itself quickly punishes poor technique with painful lacerations that result nearly every time a jam slips. Prohibit tape and gloves, and all but the most masochistic of climbers will be forced to employ better, less harmful, technique.

I acknowledge that the policy I’m proposing isn’t perfect, but I believe it is preferable to top-down management action by the BLM. In discussions with friends I've heard to primary counterarguments: prohibiting tape and gloves would elitist or ineffective.

I believe the ineffective argument is overcome by my reasoning above. However, I welcome experienced soft rock climbers to chime in with their own opinions.

Concern about a prohibition on tape and gloves being elitist is definitely warranted. Beginner crack climbers would undoubtedly be those most affected by a policy like this. I’m also being a huge hypocrite because I learned to climb at the Creek while wearing tape.

Nevertheless, the climbing community has accepted elitist policies in the past to protect the rock. Yvon Chouinard, for example, learned to climb during the Golden Age of Yosemite using the dominant method of the day—by hammering pitons—but was later instrumental in getting a reluctant community to switch to less harmful removable chocks. To offset the elitism concerns, the community could also raise money to construct leadable artificial cracks for anyone to practice on in Moab or another nearby area. And any prohibition on tape or gloves does not need to extend to hard rock areas.

Also note, the transition away from hammering pitons was not led by the National Park Service or a different management agency. It was led by climbers. Climbers that noticed a problem, devised a solution, and implemented it effectively. Their successful strategy? Make a harmful practice seem uncool. Today, it’s still perfectly legal to nail your way up the Nose, but you’d take a whole lot of shit from the climbing community if you did.

We have an opportunity to take a similar action to save the incredible cracks of Indian Creek for future generations. But, in order to do so, we will have to be willing let our egos go and let our blood flow.

Are you willing to bleed for the Creek?
FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Nonsense. Protecting your hands isn't damaging the rock or "environment."

Matt N · · CA · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 425

1.5/10

Norm Larson · · Wilson, Wy. · Joined Jan 2008 · Points: 70

Wow since 2011 huh? Maybe you should just stop visiting there. That might help.

Aerili · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,875
Matt N wrote: 1.5/10

I think that .5 was generous   

Greg Davis · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 10

when you are so shitty at hand jams you break the rock

Roots · · Wherever I am · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 20

No I am not willing to "bleed for The Creek" nor am I willing to be stoked about hand jamming in someone else's blood.

Although your argument is interesting and warrants further discussion, I wouldn't comply. When I was young and had horrible technique I never got gobies. Now I am older with better technique but my skin has become paper thin due to age, so I get them very easily.

You also do not discuss bolting out there. Guess you're ok with permanently changing the rock in that regard? If you really want to stop impacting these areas then you should stop climbing. -it's the only solution with 100% results.....

Jack Cramer · · Mammoth Lakes, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 45

Wow, this idea has already got shit on pretty hard. Feel free to continue, but while you do consider offering your own suggestions about actionable policies that might save the cracks at Indian Creek.

Greg Davis · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 10
Jack Cramer wrote: actionable policies that might save the cracks at Indian Creek.

We could sell Bears Ears to Walmart, have them include the supercrack buttress as the auto care spot and bridger towers would make a great nursery


Also could make the first 15 feet of each route 'off limits,' that way no one will do any climbing unless they bring ladders. Then we will have the scarring from aluminum extension ladders, another environmental disaster in the making. Catch-22 right?
TJ B · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 26

tl;dr

Jack Cramer · · Mammoth Lakes, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 45
GDavis Davis wrote: when you are so shitty at hand jams you break the rock

I think you’re making my point...


Without hand protection you’re forced to set better hand jams.
Mongoclimb · · Seattle, WA · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 0

From my supple dead hands 

Long Ranger · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 669
Jack Cramer wrote: Although the Windgate sandstone there is frequently choss-free,

LOL

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 252

Cool.  I’ll let Steph Davis, Brad Gobright, and all the other losers who tape know that their technique is shit.

Big B · · Reno, NV · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 1

buuut what a boot the oils from yer skin bruh? shirley their causing microaggresions in the molecular structure of the sandstone that can cause the whole cliff to crumble when it rains... 

Kevin Heinrich · · AMGA Rock Guide · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 296

Does the BLM care about the precise width of cracks?

Aerili · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,875
Jack Cramer wrote:

Without hand protection you’re forced to set better hand jams.

I actually disagree. I think I establish quicker, better hand jams with tape et al and spend less time adjusting my hand inside the crack because I'm not in as much discomfort. Therefore, frictional and normal forces are reduced. Even if tape were somehow "banned", I am sure there will still be enough people willing to throw themselves/flail a bit harder on those cracks tapeless that you would see less reduced impact than you imagine.

Want to reduce impact? Climb there less; stop advertising the shit out of the place; no more articles about Creeksgiving or Creek season; stop insta-spamming your Creek photos; don't location tag; don't answer people asking "where is this?!", etc.

Luckily, there is still a huuuge contingent of climbers who despise and avoid crack climbing at all costs. Lets keep it that way.  

Greg Davis · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 10
Jack Cramer wrote:

I think you’re making my point...


Without hand protection you’re forced to set better hand jams.

I'm mostly making jokes because the point is so asinine. Aren't stiff climbing shoes being jammed in cracks doing way more damage than hands? I can probably climb 10- straight in hands barefoot, maybe that should be the new style?

Greg Davis · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 10
Aerili wrote:

Want to reduce impact? Climb there less; stop advertising the shit out of the place; no more articles about Creeksgiving or Creek season; stop insta-spamming your Creek photos, etc.

Yes and yes

Devin Rogers · · Temecula CA · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 20

I'm not sure your logic here is sound. I don't think merely climbing these routes has as big of an impact as you think. As I'm sure everyone here knows, a section of Incredible Hands Crack has grown significantly wider over the years. ONLY the one section in the roof where people hang/fall on gear. The rest of the route is still perfect hands. This is proof that climbing the cracks is not having an impact, but hanging/falling in them is. I'm sure the creeksters in this thread can come up with some other examples of routes where the crux bit has grown wider over the years. Just to be clear, I'm not proposing a ban on hanging/falling (although I do think the Creek should be approached with an onsighting ethic, but that's just my personal take). I don't have a solution, but I don't think that banning hand protection is gonna do anything. 

Gumby King · · The Gym · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 52

Clearly someone wants us to bleed all over the precious cracks.

I love it when someones blood lubricates my hand to slip into the crack

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Climbing Gear Discussion
Post a Reply to "The Ethics of Crack Gloves and Tape at Indian C…"

Log In to Reply
Welcome

Join the Community! It's FREE

Already have an account? Login to close this notice.