Looking for sincere advice about dealing with crag dogs- the usual jokes, abuse and BS welcome too

I'm not a dog person. Never had one, don't plan to in the future.
But I realize that the future holds ever more crag dogs.

Most of them are just fine. They find a comfy spot, settle down and relax.
Some are a little pesky. They rush up, take a sniff, maybe waltz across your rope once or twice, then go bother somebody else.

But a few are toxic for various reasons.
Maybe a 'playful' puppy is trying to nip your leg, or maybe a leashed (or unleashed) hound is barking wildly, ears laid back, foam flying from his/her mouth.

Can some true dog whisperers suggest how I, a non-dog person should handle these mutts?
Their owners don't, so I need to do something.

Is there a trick?
Is there some dog training book or online video that will teach me the secrets?

Thanks in advance

We're off and running. 10 pages of "I'd kick or pepper spray the dog/owner" to "just talk to the owner."

You already know what the responses will be, Mark!

Whatever their dogs does to you, you should do them.

I'm sure that after having been aggressively humped a couple times they'd get their house in order!

Shoot I wish I could help with a trick. I just try staying cool and ignore the pup if it’s getting in my business. Otherwise, for off leash pups - I don’t think there is any problem whatsoever with asking the owner of the dog to tie them up...maybe something like, “hey I’m feeling nervous with your dog being loose while I’m trying to belay and climb, could you leash them up?” At that point hopefully they’ll just do that, or maybe they’ll facilitate some quick pup bonding time...good luck!

Something something... Right into space!!

Try a Bluetooth speaker with a recording in the dog's range of hearing beyond a human's, like a high powered dog whistle.  Just be sure to act like a tool dancing around to the out of human hearing range wailing.  And put a hammock across the trail...

But seriously, the upper ranges beyond human hearing are like putting your head in a fire siren.  It's the same principle the rodent modules use...

Water blast in the face, works on kids too!

Climb more multipitch. 

Bring a package of ham to feed them.

You can always lie and say you're deathly allergic. That might get people to react faster.

Leash the owner.

To be serious, dog treats can get some dogs to stop barking at you, but not all. Ignoring it can work, but not all the time. If a puppy is nipping at you, grab them by their scruff and give them to their owners. Alternatively, you can take it home with you and post on MP, or a Facebook climbing group, that you found a lost dog and want to return it to its owner.

I don’t think there is much you can do with much efficacy other than avoiding areas with dogs. You can confront the dog owners, but I doubt they give a shit if they are already letting their dog run over everything and bite people.

Personally, Whenever my dog goes climbing with me, there is no one else around. I have to do this because she became a little aggressive after she was attacked in two separate circumstances by unleashed dogs “that would never hurt anything”. At least that’s what their owners said. Before that, she was not aggressive at all.

THE EXTREME WAY: If you come across a crag dog that is being a huge ass, then you can find the dog owner’s car. Once you find their car, bash all their windows out, steal anything valuable, slash their tires, and write “PLEASE, LEASH YOUR FUCKING DOG” with your keys on every body panel. That might get them to leash their dog.

These are all great suggestions, but seriously, do you stare down the dog?
Or is that doggy language for asking for a fight?
Do you just say “sit” in a commanding voice?
Throw rocks if you are getting charged?

I know that Kalous and Bisharat both said just keep the dogs at home in their last podcast, but it ain’t gonna happen. 

Mark E Dixon wrote: These are all great suggestions, but seriously, do you stare down the dog?
Or is that doggy language for asking for a fight?
Do you just say “sit” in a commanding voice?
Throw rocks if you are getting charged?

I know that Kalous and Bisharat both said just keep the dogs at home in their last podcast, but it ain’t gonna happen. 

I wouldn’t stare down an aggressive dog. One method is to approach it sideways and only show one of your eyes. From there see if you can give it dog treats or calm it down by using a soft voice. Bringing yourself down to their height level can calm some dogs, but it may give some dogs a closer reach to bite your face.

Mark E Dixon wrote: These are all great suggestions, but seriously, do you stare down the dog?
Or is that doggy language for asking for a fight?
Do you just say “sit” in a commanding voice?
Throw rocks if you are getting charged?

I know that Kalous and Bisharat both said just keep the dogs at home in their last podcast, but it ain’t gonna happen. 

I will sometimes try and get the dog to sit, down, stay or some other common command. If the dog has any training at all, that can sometimes disrupt their stress. I think uncontrolled barking is a stressed out dog. I have no problems asking people to put their dog on a leash - and I don’t feel the need to offer an excuse or reason why. They know why. A spray bottle of water in the face can also disrupt barking/aggression with some dogs - I’d be careful about doing that with a stranger’s dog unless I was ready for escalation. It sucks when a dog is misbehaving at the crag. 

My dog is usually really good (always leashed and sleeps while we climb), but one day he was stressed and lost his mind barking. After a couple of minutes of not being able to calm him, we packed up and left. Didn’t want to be those people. And something was obviously stressing him out - not good for anyone including the dog. Yes, we missed out on getting more pitches in, but it was the responsibile thing to do. 

There's nothing you can do. You can try talking to the owners but they either don't give a sh t or they're oblivious and still won't get it. Society is being ruined by people who are too self-absorbed to feel any sense of community responsibility anymore. American exceptionalism ;)
So I don't get flamed: I like dogs okay. I've spent a lot of time around them at the crag. Always best when you're at the obscure crag and it's just you and your buds and one or two dogs at most. Some truly are well behaved. But when there are a bunch of them, pack mentality sets in, and they can all go bad. Or at a very busy crag, there's just too much going on and they go bad. Even when they're good, they dig holes and trash stuff more than we humans do on our own.

I feel the same way you do, Mark. I also dislike crowds outside when i'm climbing. The beauty of climbing for me is being in nature, being removed from society and in wilderness. My trick is to just avoid wherever people might be. I choose to go to areas that i know noone will be. Whether it's my own crag, or a secluded one or often just choosing the right days to go to a normally bustling crag. I've had to go in direct while climbing once because a large dog was seemingly aggressively running at my belayer and he was frightened. I was genuinely afraid that my belayer might be attacked and drop me. That is not ok and i try to avoid that sort of thing entirely now. Not just because of dogs, but it's a nice side effect.

It's all very situational. Usually it's pretty easy to read a dogby their body language/facial expression and such.

The only real problem dogs at crags are aggressive ones or barking ones. Many aggressive seeming dogs are just super protective or herding type creatures and they don't like people they don't know. Usually in this case talking calmly to the dog and crouching down a bit while puting a hand out at a low level (never above their head) works. If that doesn't work then stand back up and get ready to deliver a kick tbh. That's when you start yelling asking for the dogs owner and get that fucker leashed up.

I bring my 12 lb Yorkie mix thing to some single pitch areas but he does not bark and is more likely to take a nap on your crash pad or backpack than anything else. 

I love dogs and will bring my dog to the crag (he causes no problems) if he's allowed. But I've seen selfish people bring the wrong type of dog to the crag or leave a dog unattended while on a multi pitch and it was barking and acting aggressive. So lame. Last weekend I was at a crag with about 6 dogs, all well behaved and no problems. But all it takes is one sore thumb problem dog to ruin it for everybody.

Anyway, first read the dog. Look at it's tail, it usually tells you exactly how they are feeling. Up high and wagging = happy and unstressed. Down between it's legs and shivering = stressed and scared. Tail down + snarling = aggressive. Probably some videos on Youtube to help.

If a dog looks aggressive avoid it. Keep a wide berth. Keep an eye on it. If it comes toward you yell at it to get away from you. Stand tall and use a low commanding voice. At least that's what I do and I've never had a problem.

If a dog is friendly, or approaches you reach out a fist for them to smell. An open hand is more susceptible to a bite. They'd have to open wide to bite a fist and wouldn't have much power. Their smell is their most important sense. They can often sense how you feel. It's okay if you're a little scared if you aren't aggressive. If they sense you are not a threat, they won't worry about you. If they sense you are happy to see them then many dogs will be happy to meet you. I can tell by the dogs reaction to smelling my hand if they want a scratch behind the ears. But it's probably best for you not to try to pet/scratch a dog until you learn to read them.

I guess you didn't grow up with dogs. Bummer. Dogs really are man's best friend. We've been partners for over 6,000 years. Every dog has a different personality, like people. Because I like dogs so much they like me. Often a dog will come up to me and I'll pet it, and the owner will say "wow, she usually doesn't like men" or "doesn't like strangers". 

Anonymous wrote: Carry some dog treats, big and small.

I was considering this, but wasn't sure how long they'd keep in a pack, and more importantly, whether it's a good idea to give a stranger's dog a treat without checking first.

John Barritt wrote: Bring a package of ham to feed them.

Don't feed my dog. You may think it "looks cuuuute! Aaawww!" But it's so disrespectful. I grabbed a dog by the scruff of its neck and flipped it on its back for coming at my dog, right in front of its owner, who understood. Its demeanor did a total 180. Domination is everything for a dog.