Dual Vertical Front Points for Expedition use

What is your real world experience using a vertical front point crampon for expeditions with lots of snow climbing and occasional ice pitches, like the Cordillera Blanca? I usually use horizontals like a G12 there but they never feel secure on ice and they are heavy as hell. So, I'm thinking about trying something more aggressive unless it totally sucks on the steep snow. Maybe a Lynx or G22? 

Check out the Petzl Sarkens. Has both dual and vertical points and don't stick out as far as the more ice oriented models you mentioned. They climb ice just fine too.

I use Petzl Dartwins these days for lots of my climbing. Lightish and all round very functional.

https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Crampons/DARTWIN

Allen Sanderson wrote: I use Petzl Dartwins these days for lots of my climbing. Lightish and all round very functional.

https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Crampons/DARTWIN

Do you ever have issues with balling under the front piece with no anti bots? I like my g-20s but hate having to knock off my feet in sticky snow conditions over and over.

I’ve had a lot of success with my Sarkens in the CB. I wouldn’t take something super techy for out there unless you are going for some really really challenging mixed routes. In which case, YGD anyways. 

A few general comments that may or may not be helpful:

• The Rupal Face on Nanga Parbat was climbed in G12s, they'll probably be fine for most snow climbs.
• Trading G12s for Lynx because of weight doesn't make a lot of sense, because the Lynx is 10% heavier.
• G22s don't make a great general mountaineering crampon because they, like most aggressive ice/mixed crampons, trade off a lot of walkability for more aggressive front and secondary points for steep terrain.
• Petzl Sarkens are the worst crampon I have ever used on steep ice, and are arguably worse walking than a normal horizontal dual crampon (due to long front points), making them not great at anything really.
• The BD Snaggletooth has been an awesome all-around alpine crampon for me personally (others experience may differ).
• I did a bunch of alpine climbing in G14s (quite similar to the Lynx in theory) and they worked fine.  Not the ideal crampon for the job (see points above), but the reality is that on moderate terrain the specific crampon simply isn't that important.  I no longer use/own these crampons due to the aforementioned issues and think compromise crampons don't make a lot of sense.
• For that type of terrain, I would choose a Snaggletooth first, and a decent generic dual horizontal second (G12, Sabretooth, etc.)
• I would never go mountaineering without front and rear antibotts, but again, other experiences may differ (I'm not counting extremely difficult and steep routes in the mountains as "mountaineering" in this context)

+1 for the Sarkens, I’ve climbed everything from glacier slogs, to water fall ice, I’ve even gone dry tooling with them. If you want something modular, just change out the entire toe piece with a dart or something, you lose the anti bailing plates, but they preform quite well 

I’ve done great with the sarkens up to easy wi3, there are awesome imo in steep snow and moderate AI. I find the front points to be pretty short and prefer longer for technical ice. I got a dartwin front half for them for ice. A lot lighter and while I haven’t done pure snow slogs with them I’ve never had issues without antibots. 

I'm surprised to see all the love for sarkens on technical ice. I used to have a pair and I'm with Kyle, they are the worst ice crampon I've used on ice. I'd love to take my darts or dartwins but they ball up too much, and it sounds like the G20/G22 aren't much better. Petzl Dartwin with antibots would be AMAZING if they ever made such a thing. Guess I'm back at G12 or Sabertooth. I'd love to try the snaggletooth on some ice but the secondary point are so tiny (same with the sabertooth for that matter).

The G12 Dahu looks promising if only could find a pair.

I think the reason there are a lot of folks enjoying the Sarkens (such as myself) is that they provide good stability on snow and rock. They are definitely not the best for ice, but they work well enough on easy ice.

I’ve got a pair of the Sarkens and Snaggletooths. I wouldn’t say one is “better” than the other. I use them for different things. The Dahu looks pretty sweet, I’d pick them up if I could find them.

But realistically, for the objectives in question, all of these would work. Including the G12s. My best advice to the OP is to save your money. 

What's wrong with the Petzl Vasak? Nobody has mentioned it yet, but I use them for loads of stuff. For anything over WI4 or with much mixed climbing I switch to Darts, but the Vasaks are generally awesome. 

Andrew Blease wrote: What's wrong with the Petzl Vasak? Nobody has mentioned it yet, but I use them for loads of stuff. For anything over WI4 or with much mixed climbing I switch to Darts, but the Vasaks are generally awesome. 

Nothing wrong with them, but they have tiny secondary points and don't offer much on more technical ground. They should be great for general slogging.

MyFeetHurt wrote: I'd love to try the snaggletooth on some ice but the secondary point are so tiny (same with the sabertooth for that matter).

For what it's worth, compared to the grades I lead in G20s at the ice crag, I have led about half a grade easier in my Snaggletooth (in the alpine, with a pack on); point being that I don't find there to be a big gap in performance.

They might actually drytool better than vertical monos on some types of rock, especially alpiney stuff with edges/ledges.  They are sometimes not as good on well-traveled sport drytool routes because those generally have worn-in pockets from vertical points.

I agree with Chris that your G12s will probably be fine for the objectives you're talking about, maybe even ideal, and it may not make sense to spend more money.

Didn't Gadd use Sabretooths for some very technical climbs?

MyFeetHurt wrote: I'm surprised to see all the love for sarkens on technical ice. I used to have a pair and I'm with Kyle, they are the worst ice crampon I've used on ice. I'd love to take my darts or dartwins but they ball up too much, and it sounds like the G20/G22 aren't much better. Petzl Dartwin with antibots would be AMAZING if they ever made such a thing. Guess I'm back at G12 or Sabertooth. I'd love to try the snaggletooth on some ice but the secondary point are so tiny (same with the sabertooth for that matter).

The G12 Dahu looks promising if only could find a pair.

Amazon has the Dahu , though I think pretty highly of the Snaggletooths as well.

earl mcalister wrote:

Do you ever have issues with balling under the front piece with no anti bots? I like my g-20s but hate having to knock off my feet in sticky snow conditions over and over.

Just saw this question. They do ball up without anti bots. However, it typically does not bother me too much as I have learned to deal with the issue without having to knock the snow off over and over. In the past spraying with Pledge has helped - and then they smell lemon fresh.

Grivel G12 has been a great go-to crampon for big mountain use.  I've climbed up to M5 in them, not to mention a ridiculous amount of glaciers, steep snow, and moderate water ice.

Roots wrote: Didn't Gadd use Sabretooths for some very technical climbs?

Ian Welsted climbed K6 West in Sabretooths and Scarpa Omegas.

MyFeetHurt wrote: (...) Petzl Dartwin with antibots would be AMAZING if they ever made such a thing(...)

in that case you might want to look at the pictures of the new dart(win) Petzl is releasing in September.

Even better it is compatible with the Alu Hybrid heel (unfortunately it won't be sold just as a hybrid version) for a 600g crampon with removable mono or dual points and full antibots.

+1 for snaggletooths. I’ve climbed moderate ice and mixed in then, great on more low angle snow. If I could only have one crampon they’d be it. 

Kyle Tarry wrote: A few general comments that may or may not be helpful:

• The Rupal Face on Nanga Parbat was climbed in G12s, they'll probably be fine for most snow climbs.

Sorry to be that guy, but I thought I read it was G14s.