Why is Black Diamond lying about x4/c3 cam size ranges?

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en/climbing-cams-stoppers-nuts-hexes/camalot-x4-BD2622_cfg.html#start=3
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/on/demandware.static/-/Library-Sites-SharedLibrary/default/dwaf34dfb1/images/tech-highlights/tech-highlight_S16_cam-chart.png

X4s can't touch the purple/grey C3s. Are they just making shit up so the X4s don't look like shit?

Why does anybody fucking care. 

Max Rausch wrote: Why does anybody fucking care. 

Obviously because they climb on routes that protect best with micro cams...

i don't know if BD is intending to lie, but the visual chart is definitely whacked...  AM's numbers above look more reasonable, but don't seem to match the graphics.

I mean, I guess you could theoretically place it at that range, but good luck getting it out.

The size differences are pretty obvious if you've ever look at the cams...

Dan Petty wrote:

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en/climbing-cams-stoppers-nuts-hexes/camalot-x4-BD2622_cfg.html#start=3
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/on/demandware.static/-/Library-Sites-SharedLibrary/default/dwaf34dfb1/images/tech-highlights/tech-highlight_S16_cam-chart.png

X4s can't touch the purple/grey C3s. Are they just making shit up so the X4s don't look like shit?

they are not lying, you are just reading way to much into the accuracy of an info-graphic. It's a piece of advertising, not a figure in a science paper.... 

the problem is that the infographic is needlessly crappy/inaccurate.  why not just use an excel chart instead of some crappy graphic software.  if you are going to put out technical info, you should have a technical person do it, not somebody who majored in interpretive art therapy.  how happy would you be if you wanted to buy a cam that is smaller than cam "A", so you did some research, bought a new cam and it turned out that it wasn't smaller than cam "A".  it would be pretty annoying.

most of 'murica struggles with numbers though.  need info graphix!

slim wrote: most of 'murica struggles with numbers though.  need info graphix!

Even with a math degree, I prefer infografiks for comparing lots of things.

But I guess I'm mostly human, like most people.

The whole point of the infographic is to provide a visual size comparison between their cam options. Inaccuracy is at best worthless and, at worst, intentionally deceptive. Graphics like these aren't just thrown together in MS paint, but rather likely using high-end graphics or layout software (i.e. Adobe Illustrator/InDesign). Unfortunately, there is no longer a C3 product page available and the X4 page does not provide the numeric ranges for the C3 cams for people to review before assuming that the X4s will cover the range of the C3s.

While it's possible that the misrepresentation is accidental, this falsehood conveniently suits the narrative expressed in the rest of the page content.

Combining unparalleled expansion range with single-stem flexibility and a narrow head width, the Black Diamond Camalot X4 represents the missing link in our gold-standard Camalot family.... The X4's embedded cam springs allow for an ultra-narrow head width that fits in those tight spots other cams won't.... Narrower head width than original Camalot fits in more places than ever...

Not to mention they won't allow such info in the reviews... I hope nobody is relying on these reviews as a reflection of product quality or pros/cons.

Why did BD stop making the C3s?  Were they not selling?  They go in so many shallow cracks.  My purple 00 gets to go in all kinds of weird places.  It and the grey 000 both are thinner than the grey 00 3-Cam and the internal cables make them shallower than the U-stem design.  When I heard they were discontinued I tried to find the 000 and 00 but alas....

Mack Johnson When I heard they were discontinued I tried to find the 000 and 00 but alas....

I pieced together a second set when I heard. Wishing I got trips in the 00,000 sizes. 

There's an outdoor store in NJ called "Ramsey Outdoor" the ledgewood location has 2 new with tags 000 C3's on the shelf as of last weekend when i was in there.  Call them up.

I haven't tested it, but I'm guessing the new spatula is their best gear for thin cracks now. #thanksbd

X4 0.1: 8.4-13.8 mm
C3 000: 7.8-12.9 mm

You're expecting to be able to distinguish a 0.6 mm range difference on a graph that shows between 0 and 200 mm.  That's 0.3% of full scale.  That's simply not a reasonable request or criticism.

Claiming that BD is "lying" about this is like calling you a liar for saying your commute to work is "11 miles" when it's actually 10.97 miles.  I.E. ridiculous.

Don't all guys lie about size?

Kyle Tarry wrote: X4 0.1: 8.4-13.8 mm
C3 000: 7.8-12.9 mm

You're expecting to be able to distinguish a 0.6 mm range difference on a graph that shows between 0 and 200 mm.  That's 0.3% of full scale.  That's simply not a reasonable request or criticism.

So what your saying here is, the difference is small.Don't let this distract you from the the fact that in 1966, Al Bundy scored four touchdowns in a single game while playing for the Polk High School Panthers in the 1966 city championship game versus Andrew Johnson High School, including the game-winning touchdown in the final seconds against his old nemesis, Bubba "Spare Tire" Dixon.

Kyle Tarry wrote: X4 0.1: 8.4-13.8 mm
C3 000: 7.8-12.9 mm

You're expecting to be able to distinguish a 0.6 mm range difference on a graph that shows between 0 and 200 mm.  That's 0.3% of full scale.  That's simply not a reasonable request or criticism.

Claiming that BD is "lying" about this is like calling you a liar for saying your commute to work is "11 miles" when it's actually 10.97 miles.  I.E. ridiculous.

what you're saying is... they should have graphed it on a log scale?