Mountain Project Logo

Girth Hitch as Tie In ?

Original Post
t.farrell · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 60

Thinking about people complaining about fig 8 being difficult to untie...why couldn’t you girth hitch the rope to your harness as a tie in? (Rope up through the tie in points, around the bottom strand, back down through tie in, then complete a retrace 8)

Wouldn’t this theoretically lessen the impact on the knot itself as it could slip a decent amount?

Too much nylon on nylon action?

Ryan M Moore · · Philadelphia, PA · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 35

Yes.

km ba · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2019 · Points: 0

Do you want to tie an 8 around the harness points, or make an actual girth hitch then finish with a bowline or something? Just use a Yosemite finish, and don't kill yourself with some reinvented solution to a problem that was solved decades ago.

Adam Gellman · · Bellingham WA · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 311

I feel like that would become kinda messy and difficult really quick and not really sure how much it would do to help. If you're really concerned about getting the knot undone, people are really happy with the bowline or some overhand retrace knots. Might fall under KISS

Wayd Walker · · Three Forks · Joined Jan 2019 · Points: 0

I use a bowline with Yosemite finish.  Easy to untie.

For the paranoid...leave enough tail to tie another backup although the Yosemite finish is the back up to the bowline.  

In response to the people freaking out on the intertubes about this knot capsizing and the bowline no longer being a bowline...Learn to properly tie and dress all your knots!  

Mark Pilate · · MN · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 25

This is a solution in search of a victim...

Christopher Smith · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 0

The only time you should really be tying in with a girth hitch is when going into the middle of a line for glacier travel, aka using an alpine girth hitch (and even then there are downsides to using this system).  Other than that this is a solution looking for a problem.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610

K.I.S.S.

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812
t.farrell wrote: Thinking about people complaining about fig 8 being difficult to untie...why couldn’t you girth hitch the rope to your harness as a tie in? (Rope up through the tie in points, around the bottom strand, back down through tie in, then complete a retrace 8)

Wouldn’t this theoretically lessen the impact on the knot itself as it could slip a decent amount?

Too much nylon on nylon action?

Try falling on it and report back. It sounds like a safe enough experiment. 

My money is that a couple falls and the figure 8 will still feel equally hard to untie.
Conor Mark · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 720

Tieing in with a girth hitch is called a cow hitch with a better half- essentially a girth hitch tied with the end of the rope.

Seems ill-suited for being a dynamic part of your climbing system.

Lena chita · · OH · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 1,667
t.farrell wrote: Thinking about people complaining about fig 8 being difficult to untie...why couldn’t you girth hitch the rope to your harness as a tie in? (Rope up through the tie in points, around the bottom strand, back down through tie in, then complete a retrace 8)

Wouldn’t this theoretically lessen the impact on the knot itself as it could slip a decent amount?

Too much nylon on nylon action?

There is already a solution to the figure 8 being too hard to untie after falls. The solution is a bowline, with many variations. 


I am not sure what is accomplished by your girth hitch PLUS figure 8 that isn’t accomplished with less bulk by any of the common bowline variations. 
Robert S · · Driftwood, TX · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 661

1.5/10

t.farrell · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 60
Lena chita wrote:

There is already a solution to the figure 8 being too hard to untie after falls. The solution is a bowline, with many variations. 


I am not sure what is accomplished by your girth hitch PLUS figure 8 that isn’t accomplished with less bulk by any of the common bowline variations. 

Just pondering stuff on a rainy day. I’m well aware of the alternatives. Couldn’t find anything in the internet about it so figured I’d ask here.

Evan LovleyMeyers · · Seattle · Joined Mar 2019 · Points: 330

The figure 8 is 80% efficient compared to rope strength and a girth hitch is only 50%  adding a girth hitch will weaken the system 

Fran M · · Germany · Joined Feb 2019 · Points: 0

I use a girth hitch when i tie in the middle of the rope. (i.e. single pitch <35m with one half rope). The advantage is that there is no bulk compared to two Figures of 8.

I do it by threading a bight from the top to bottom tie-in points and then step into the bight and bring it over my head to form the girth hitch. (when removing the rope, the loop goes down towards my feet and does not get caught on the gear hanging off my harness). This way, the belay loop seats in between the two strands and i can undo the hitch while tethered to an anchor.

the downside is that the tie-in points are pressed together and the harness needs some adjustment.
I have tried tying it to the belay loop, but it is too soft and the hitch capsizes. I once did and added a carabiner to prevent it but rather not. I don't want to wear out the belay loop either.

EDIT: Climbing Mag - Alpine Girth Hitch

EDIT 2: Fixed link and grammar. Added text in italics. Some context: I do this to bring up two seconds on single "trad" pitches where falling is not common given the style (Saxony alps). no bulky knots help when I am in a chimney or going around a feature, panicking!

Mark Pilate · · MN · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 25

Whatever it was that Fran said....Either a bad troll, or tremendous idiot.

Mark Hudon · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

You know, I have lots of random weird thoughts that flow through my head. I don’t post questions about those thoughts on forums.

Using a girth hitch as a tie in would have been one of those thoughts. 

Billcoe · · Pacific Northwet · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 936
Lena chita wrote:

There is already a solution to the figure 8 being too hard to untie after falls. The solution is a bowline, with many variations. 


I am not sure what is accomplished by your girth hitch PLUS figure 8 that isn’t accomplished with less bulk by any of the common bowline variations. 
People moved to figure 8s from bowlines as the bowlines (where were common to tie in with) were becoming undone and there were fatalities. Multiple. A figure 8 works great, never heard of one unting mid pitch. What I use to do when I was guiding and had a fat...**cough** heavier*** client who I knew would be hangning on the line was to simply run the rope an extra turn through the harness tie in point so its wrapped around there twice, then tie the figure 8 normal. Works great for easing the untying, is fast and near identical to the normal way. The only difference is that you wrapped the rope one more loop around the tie in points so it's a full circle.
chris magness · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 590

A clean, simple retrace 8 will always be the preferred tie-in method as it is redundant and easily recognized by most climbers.  If you reinvent the wheel, you decrease your margin of safety because you lose that broad recognition.

I use a girth hitched cow's tail once in awhile when I have 2 followers on one rope, this eliminates the need to use caribiners for the middle clip-in (it is now a tie-in) and the potential for cross loading.

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812
Billcoe wrote: People moved to figure 8s from bowlines as the bowlines (where were common to tie in with) were becoming undone and there were fatalities. Multiple. 

For me, this is not much of an argument.

In the most general sense it becomes “Peopled moved to being couch potatoes from climbing as there have been fatalities with climbing. Multiple.”

Or add any comparison like 
* sport vs trad
* lower vs rap
* rap with no backup hitch vs backup hitch
* commute by bicycle vs commute by bus
Mark Pilate · · MN · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 25
Fran M wrote: I use a girth hitch when i tie in the middle of the roppe. (i.e. single pitch <35m with one half rope). The advantage is that there is no bulk compared to teo F8.

I do it by threading a bight from the top to bottom tie-in points anf then step into the bight snd bring it over my head to form the girth hitch. This way, the belay loop seats in between the two strands and i can undo the hitch while tethered to an anchor.

the downside is thst the tie-in points are pressed together and the harmess needs some adjustment.
I have tried tying it to the belay loop, but it is too soft and the hitch capsizes. I once did and added a carabiner to prevent it but rather not. I dont want to wear the belay loop either

EDIT: https://www.climbing.com/skills/how-to-tie-an-alpine-girth-hitch/

Fran - I apologize for the harsh glibness of my earlier response.  I re-ead yours and and your edit link (although link itself didn’t work).   My take is that the article is further proof of “Climbing’s” slide, and Blake’s recommended “Tool for your bag of tricks” is in my opinion more like adding an anvil...

Adding this, as he says, cuz you forgot more proper methods is needless at best, stupid at worst.  But OK, to each his own reinvention of the wheel.
In a more “realistic world” than his, I can just see a bunch of glacier gumbies in crampons and packs festooned with pickets, all tripping and flopping on the snow trying to extricate themselves from their “easy loops”...
Then to your own specifics where I made some assumptions based on your statements.  Correct me if I’m wrong here. You are tying into the middle of a single half rope with a girth hitch (to use two strands of a half strength rope with a half strength knot = risk homeostasis) to lead presumably... the potentially dangerous part is if you lead using actual half-rope technique-alternate clipping   Or do you use twin technique on your half ?  
Don’t want to bog into too many details, but No matter how you cut it, I can see absolutely no advantage over a bowline on a bight for any of the applications discussed  (save slightly more bulky)...no Biner clips (unless the tail for a backup) easy to untie, super strong, no diving through loops, etc. 
Articles in Climbing aside, I say just “don’t “
But then I’m just a noob so I may be mistaken...
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Climbing Gear Discussion
Post a Reply to "Girth Hitch as Tie In ?"

Log In to Reply
Welcome

Join the Community! It's FREE

Already have an account? Login to close this notice.