Totems for Beginning Trad Rack

Looking to start building a trad rack here soon. I have heard amazing things about Totem cams and wondering if this might be a good place to start with in terms of getting in the door with trad gear. Especially since 99% of people I will climb with have the common BD C4s it seems like having a rack of totems would go a long way. Thoughts?

They're awesome if you can afford them. Although completely unnecessary as a beginner rack. They won't make you climb harder. If you're trying to 'get in the door' with trad gear, buy C4's. They can be found used and cheap on here. 

I'd shy away as a beginner. Totems are fantastic but as you said 99% of the people you climb will have c4'ss. Since Totems are just a bit different in terms of how they stick and have greater margin of error I think you run the risk of learning how to make good totem placements but not necessarily good cam placements in general. If you want to have something that complements c4's dragons or New Friends are similar enough but with their own unique touches.

Totems are the best small cams ever, but if you're not doing any aid climbing or placing pro in weird flary stuff, then standard cams will do the job just fine. I'd recommend getting a single rack of C4's or Dragons, and then if you find yourself climbing the type of stuff where totems really come in handy, then go ahead and invest in a set from black to green.

Max Rausch wrote: used and cheap

This. You will save a boatload of cash if you buy used gear on MP.

If you’ve got the cash go for totems, why not? Like someone mentioned, I prefer them in smaller sizes but occasionally you’ll come across larger placements that they do work better than a BD. 

Josiah Ferguson wrote: I'd shy away as a beginner. Totems are fantastic but as you said 99% of the people you climb will have c4'ss. Since Totems are just a bit different in terms of how they stick and have greater margin of error I think you run the risk of learning how to make good totem placements but not necessarily good cam placements in general.

You could equally say, "I'd shy away as a beginner. 99% of the people you climb will have C4s, but as you said Totems are fantastic. Since C4s are just a bit different in terms of how they stick and have less margin of error, I think you run the risk of learning how to make good C4 placements but not necessarily good cam placements in general."

(My point is that this criticism applies to literally any cam.)

I'd say about 50% of people I've climbed with carry C4s. Given how common C4s are, I don't think you'll have any trouble learning how to place them, since you'll be using them a lot when you mix racks with other people.

Brock Jones wrote: Totems are the best small cams ever, but if you're not doing any aid climbing or placing pro in weird flary stuff, then standard cams will do the job just fine. I'd recommend getting a single rack of C4's or Dragons, and then if you find yourself climbing the type of stuff where totems really come in handy, then go ahead and invest in a set from black to green.

This is fairly good advice I think. The benefits of the Totems kind of fizzle out at larger sizes (red/orange). The Totems aren't bad cams in those sizes, but I think the Dragons are better because they're cheaper and have the extendable slings.

For "normal" cams you might also consider the UL Master Cams. They're lighter and cheaper than C4s in the same sizes, and they have dots which indicate how cammed they should be, which could be a nice learning tool for a beginner.

All that said, if you have the money for it, I don't think you'd go wrong to get a double rack of Totems if you have the money for it.

Josiah Ferguson wrote: I'd shy away as a beginner. Totems are fantastic but as you said 99% of the people you climb will have c4'ss. Since Totems are just a bit different in terms of how they stick and have greater margin of error I think you run the risk of learning how to make good totem placements but not necessarily good cam placements in general. If you want to have something that complements c4's dragons or New Friends are similar enough but with their own unique touches.

What is the "greater margin of error" associated with Totems?

I don't think there is a shred of difference in how Totems are placed vs C4's or Dragons.  In some circumstances, the Totems will have greater holding power.  Suggesting that this is somehow a disadvantage for novices is a peculiar way to look at the situation.

But the holding power consideration is vague.  Most US climbing is on the higher-friction rocks that cams were originally designed for.  If you are going to be climbing a lot on rock that is known to be slicker than granite (basalt and limestone for example), then Totems should probably be your first choice, with the understanding that any cam is going to be less reliable on such rock.  Assuming compatible rock, the most significant consideration is the type of cracks you'll encounter.  The main everyday advantage of Totems is their narrow head width.  This can be a tremendous advantage on highly featured rock with wiggly cracks and pockets.  But if you are plugging cams into long parallel-sided cracks with little variation, the smaller head widths confer no advantage, and the Totems are bulkier to carry and a bit floppy in the larger sizes.  They still have advantages in flaring placements, but that is more of an aid climbing consideration.

If you are eventually aiming for a double rack, a good compromise in terms of both function and price is to have a single set of Totems and a corresponding single set of C4's, Dragons, or Friends.

Josiah Ferguson wrote:  Since Totems are just a bit different in terms of how they stick and have greater margin of error I think you run the risk of learning how to make good totem placements but not necessarily good cam placements in general. 

Respectfully disagree.  All cams have a usable range and become marginal with regard to being able to clean it efficiently (or at all in some cases) at the smaller side of that usable range, and walking more and being more prone to failing/ripping at the wider end of that usable range.  Totems are the same.  The only way(s) that they are different is that they are touted to have better holding power, which may or may not be true, as I've seen nothing more than anecdotal evidence to suggest that, and that they will hold in flaring placements or on two lobes better than "conventional" cams- also backed up by anecdotal evidence (I say anecdotal because I haven't seen side by side comparison in controlled pull tests, though some may exist).  Either way, beginners at placing gear shouldn't be testing the limits of any gear in less than ideal placements- including Totems.  Now, if you were to argue that because of the reputation of Totems, a beginner may be more apt to place them in less than ideal placements thinking that it's bomber, then I'd agree.  

A well placed Totem is the same as any other well-placed cam.  All four lobes evenly contracted just past the middle end of its range (maybe a bit further for smaller cams), engaged in solid rock, either in a pod or in a parallel-sided crack, taking special care to extend if you think it's going to walk, or if the route wanders, and being careful not to place it where the lobes could become disengaged if it were to walk into a larger placement.  The key, to me, is to know your gear well, know how it's designed to work and know its limitations and how to employ it in a way that will give it the best chance of arresting a fall.  Totems do not have a greater margin of error.  If you believe what's been written about them, then the opposite is true, and if you employ them like you would other cams, then they have the same margin of error/failure (which is to say if they're placed correctly, a small margin).

Know the risk, know your tools and how to employ them and their failure modes.  If you do all this, then the only real issue is that for a beginner, Totems are somewhat cost prohibitive, because as has been mentioned, you can buy perfectly serviceable used gear for much cheaper and often times get two used cams for the price of a new Totem.

don'tchuffonme wrote:

The only way(s) that they are different is that they are touted to have better holding power, which may or may not be true, as I've seen nothing more than anecdotal evidence to suggest that, and that they will hold in flaring placements or on two lobes better than "conventional" cams- also backed up by anecdotal evidence (I say anecdotal because I haven't seen side by side comparison in controlled pull tests, though some may exist).

There are other parts of your post I agree with, but I want to point out that the evidence for better holding power and better holding in flared placements isn't just anecdotal:

Mechanical principles.

People need to get away from the idea of a "beginner rack" in terms of buying cheaper or less than high quality gear simply because they are just starting out.  Always buy the best you can afford even if it means building your rack slower over time.  If you go out and buy a full set of bargain cams you will be left with a set of bargain cams that sit in a bin and never get used.  
Buy the Totems, they are great cam and not specific to aiding, they do it all.  I would say however that I find them less crucial in larger placements and where a orange Totem works good a #2 BD will usually works just as good so if you want to save a few bucks you can substitute the red and orange Totems with the BD #1-2.  

The smaller sizes are a bigger advantage. If you can afford it and want to treat yourself, get Totems in blue and yellow (roughly equivalent to .3 and .4 C4s respectively).

As a newer trad leader I went straight for the small Totems. There is a distinct difference in the feeling and security if those smaller Totems vs my C4’s (which I still love, don’t get me wrong. Have a whole set). As I’m learning, pushing myself and taking small falls here and there I just feel more safe after placing a Totem. To me it’s a no brainer

Perfect starter rack from my research is BD 0.1 too 4         doubles in 0.3 too 2

If u have the money buy a full set of bd and whole rack of totems. That way u have the most options as the totems are slightly different size

Having doubles in the mid sizes will get u up almost anything

Yes, buy the best, most expensive cams ever, when just learning. The fresher the booty, the better! YAARRRGGHH

David K wrote: There are other parts of your post I agree with, but I want to point out that the evidence for better holding power and better holding in flared placements isn't just anecdotal:

Mechanical principles.

That's theory that they'll exhibit a higher outward force, not evidence that they'll perform better than other cams. Those are two different claims and to support the latter, you have to prove that all other cams will fail in an identical placement. This is exactly what don'tchuffonme was saying.

OP - a single rack of cams from #0.5-#3 C4# is a good place to start. For small cams, get TCUs or C3s or Mastercam, in the equivalent of #0.3-0.5 C4. There is a size comparison table for cam sizes but I forget the exact url. Camparison? Take a peak for that, it can be invaluable in the process of buying gear

Buy safe gear, not cheap gear! I've used totems a few times (partner's) and liked them a lot. They actually became my go-to finger cams. The shape of the lobes seemed engineered toward prevention of overcamming, and broad range. The teeth in the lobes were just cool looking, and just looked like they wanted to bite into the rock better; and the rigidity of the stems made for a quick, precise placement, though it causes compromise in situations where you need to get a piece into a shallow placement (acceptable lobe contact means stem positioned at 90 degrees to the crack on vertical terrain)--no Bueno.

I bought doubles in C4s. Now I want totems. Wish I had bought one set of C4s and one set of totems 

a few yrs ago when i started building my 1st rack i bought what was common with people i climbed with, i was familiar with the gear. so that was a rack of c4's  and dmm nuts. my small gear i got lucky on a set of totem basics. i like them over x4's and i have a set but rarely use them.

 if im with a partner that has a franken rack or other gear im not familiar with ill make them lead everything. so consider this if you want to swap leads or what ever..... this is just me and what i like.

that said, i have a rack of totems and cant wait to use them. but i also have a double rack of c4's.

This post is already clogged, but here's my $0.02 anyway.

I'm a newbie in trad with a year under my belt.

I have 2 small totems. My rack is fairly small. Mostly C4 and nuts.

They are amazing for certain situations, but not necessary most of the time. Climbing in NC 1 out of 20 times I place a totem is in a spot that I wouldn't want to place a C4.

Aid climbing in Yosemite (never done it) might be 1 out of 10 times.

If you climb in, say Utah, it'd be 1 out of 50+ times.

They are nice, but 3x as expensive. Only get them when you need them. Which may be now, but most likely wont be until you're leading up hard trad.