Best Big Wall Aid Ladder?

I am just getting into big wall/aid climbing, and I am having trouble figuring out which aiders I should get. I'm looking to do some big wall routes in Yosemite, starting with the South Face of Washington Column, then the RNWF of half dome, and eventually the Nose. So a mix of aid climbing and free climbing. I would like to get something that doesn't cost too much. What do you think? ladder or Etrier? spreader bar or no spreader bar? Give me your opinions.

Spreader bars are extremely useful. If you are going to be jugging get ones with an elastic strap that can go over your foot.  Yates will likely be the most recommend set.

Yates or Runout Customs.  Runout just started making a ladder style with 2" webbing rungs that look pretty comfy.   I am very partial to ladder style with spreader bar.

I'll second having a rigid spreader bar in the steps. I prefer the ladder style, as opposed to the steps being on opposite sides. I had the Metolius 8 step ladder style one for the limited amount of aiding I did in my youth.

Big fan of my Yates Speed ladders, the new runout ones look very comfy, might be more than what you need unless you’re doing a super aid heavy wall though. 

The Fish makes some nice ladders for a very affordable price. Mine have held up for a few years now. Best bang for the buck.

In my limited opinion, ladders have less fiddle factor. Etriers can probably pack up smaller though. Depends on just how much free vs aid you're going to be doing, but you can always tag up your bag/aid gear after leading the pitch so I guess it's a wash anyway. I'd go ladders.

I just started to aid climb and I thought learning with a spreader bar was pretty key.  I went with alternate steps because I got an extremely good deal on them.  I thought the ladder style would be much better for me but honestly the alternate step ones work very well. 

Reviving an older thread.

Just starting to do some easy aiding here in Germany and will be working on the basics for the next few years.

 No lofty goals or "Delusions of Grandeur" here but want to start to dabble in the game.

End goal in 3-5 years will be a Big Wall somewhere that takes a few days.

With that in mind, would you recommend the Yates Big Wall Ladder or the Yates Speed Wall ladder.  

Both get great reviews and I'm leaning towards one of those two.

Thanks!

Ladder choice depends on the type of climb: for S face of the column, Nose, RNWF you will probably need to use ladders, but you'll be free climbing ~80% of the time, so "nice aid climbing ladders" will just be bulky and get in the way.  For those routes, I'd go with the speed wall ladders.  If you're going to be aiding more than half the time, it's worth it to have a burly ladder with a spreader bar because it's faster when you're not trying to untangle etriers.

Most people think the climbing part of aiding is the tricky bit; in my experience, it's the hauling and logistics.  Any dummy can stuff a cam in a crack and stand on it, but if you can't haul a bag and lower out then you're going to have a bad time.

I have big feet (13) and I found  a 2 ladder system with the yates speed wall ladders to be tough to move up depending on the terrain (lower angle to vertical). The lower foot would be tensioning the ladder making it difficult to wiggle my next foot in given the lack of space from the wall. I'd find myself doing an unweighting dance while trying to get the ladder away from the wall enough to provide enough room to get my next foot in. Thankfully that dance was on bomber gear, I can't imagine it on something sketchy. Otherwise I would be toeing onto the step burning myself out.

I opted for the etrier style on the next wall despite a little headache untangling and setting those up on each piece clipped, the fact that the steps were on different sides of the center line allowed me to freely work the next higher step so I could stand in it. I think this problem I describe is unique to big footed folk but I am not sure. Maybe it's just a matter of my technique sucking and relying on my aiders too much, but I did find the etriers more manageable despite the untangle cluster factor.

​https://www.metoliusclimbing.com/easy_aider.html

These made my last wall feel like I was cheating.

James Donigan wrote: I have big feet (13) and I found  a 2 ladder system with the yates speed wall ladders to be tough to move up depending on the terrain (lower angle to vertical). The lower foot would be tensioning the ladder making it difficult to wiggle my next foot in given the lack of space from the wall. I'd find myself doing an unweighting dance while trying to get the ladder away from the wall enough to provide enough room to get my next foot in. Thankfully that dance was on bomber gear, I can't imagine it on something sketchy. Otherwise I would be toeing onto the step burning myself out.

I opted for the etrier style on the next wall despite a little headache untangling and setting those up on each piece clipped, the fact that the steps were on different sides of the center line allowed me to freely work the next higher step so I could stand in it. I think this problem I describe is unique to big footed folk but I am not sure. Maybe it's just a matter of my technique sucking and relying on my aiders too much., buI did find the etriers more manageable despite the untangle cluster factor.

I also suffered from this problem (and have 13 feet), but over time I've found that a good solution for me is to step relatively far into the ladder on my first step (to about mid-foot). This tensions the ladder slightly away from the wall and I don't have problems stepping in (at an angle if necessary) to the rest of the steps as I ascend the ladder. It took a couple tries to get it right, but I'm able to do it quickly and without any weighting-unweighting shenanigans. It sounds like you've got a system that works for you, but I personally dislike etrier style aiders and so if any other big-footed climbers are reading, this has enabled ladder-style aiders for me with no real loss of time or effort. 

Related to OP's question, CAMP made (makes?) ladder-style aiders in the vein of the Yates ladders which I like a lot: [ camp-usa.com/outdoor/produc…]  My wife and I needed a new pair for a wall and so I scooped them up. I liked the design, but one of the ladders had a manufactoring problem related to the spreader bar attachment rivet. I assumed that was a one-off problem (the replacement they gave me works great) but they're out of stock on the website. Any industry insight here? Are they still doing runs of these or are they moving on from them? Other than these, I would recommend the Yates ladders to anyone looking to do a wall. That having been said, I see and hear a lot of folks who are just interested in dipping a toe into aid climbing, or want to have one "wall" or overnight experience and then call it good. If you're in this category, my opinion is that it doesn't really matter all that much which ladders, or daiseys, or fifis, etc., you use. Borrow or buy used ladders online and don't sweat it. 

+1 for Yates Speed Ladder. Save yourself some pain and make sure you get something with a spreader bar.

Thanks all for the great advice!

I do not see myself ever doing anything beyond C2 aid so I really appreciate all of the relevant advice.

It looks like the Yates Speed Wall ones (or the Camp/Runouts version) will work well for what i have in mind.

Thanks again.

Christopher Smaling wrote: Ladder choice depends on the type of climb: for S face of the column, Nose, RNWF you will probably need to use ladders, but you'll be free climbing ~80% of the time, so "nice aid climbing ladders" will just be bulky and get in the way.  For those routes, I'd go with the speed wall ladders.  If you're going to be aiding more than half the time, it's worth it to have a burly ladder with a spreader bar because it's faster when you're not trying to untangle etriers.

Most people think the climbing part of aiding is the tricky bit; in my experience, it's the hauling and logistics.  Any dummy can stuff a cam in a crack and stand on it, but if you can't haul a bag and lower out then you're going to have a bad time.

Absolutely.  The routes that you mention are my dream routes down the road in a 3 to 5 years.

For now i just plan on drilling the aiding climbing part and when that becomes second nature, then I’ll delve into the crazy hauling systems, etc.

Buck Rogers wrote:

Absolutely.  The routes that you mention are my dream routes down the road in a 3 to 5 years.

For now i just plan on drilling the aiding climbing part and when that becomes second nature, then I’ll delve into the crazy hauling systems, etc.

Start learning about hauling and lowering out now.  It's not crazy unless you use a crazy system.  Assuming you can free 5.10 trad, you probably already have all the aid climbing skills you need.  Hauling, jugging, lowering out are far more critical.  There's some good videos on YouTube.

I got a pair of Aideer ladders for my first big wall. Really nice compared to leading with for example the Metolius 5 step aider. Nice to have a spreader bar and a good compromise when it comes to bulk and comfort: https://www.aideerclimbing.rocks/theaideer.html . 

Any of the ladder type with spreader bar are just fine.   Don’t be under the illusion that you will be free climbing much if you are doing a multi day wall, especially your first wall.  You will be beat up and tired, pitches you thought you will free you will look at and say screw that and you will end up doing whatever is easiest just to get up the thing.  If you are a solid 5.10 climber plan on climbing no harder than 5.8 on a wall unless you are really honed and prepared.  As mentioned above I would work on hauling, belay transitions, lower outs and setting up your portaledge.  These are the things that eat time and are soul suckers on a wall if you haven’t prepared.   The actual aid climbing is the easy part.  

Right!

Completely agree with what you are saying Kevin.  

I just bought a Petzl Evolv Adjust, a pair of Yates Speed Ladders and an adjustable fifi.  That was just over $200 so far.

The Evolv arrived today and the ladders and fifi should be in next week.

I’ll work with these for a month or more and then make the next purchases (gear for hauling, etc).  Im also starting to prowl around for a used portaledge.

Thanks all for the help.  Hoping to get on a “starter” wall in the Dolomites this summer.

Sorry, stupid question here:

What is the extra nylon loop at the top of the Yates ladder for?

I've watched the Chris Mac videos and looked at his book and even when he uses daisy chains he does not seem to use these loops.  

Thanks for the help.

Buck Rogers wrote:
What is the extra nylon loop at the top of the Yates ladder for?

I use as a handle to pull myself up.