Gri gri plus vs edelrid eddy vs camp matik

With those three belay devices, what is the difference in terms of the mechanics in how they operate? Do they all function basically the same way? Are they essentially the same design, or is there some significant difference? 

They all function the same way (the Eddy is the "other" way round). Buy a GriGri.

GG+ allows to choose between "Lead Belay/Top Roping" settings for cam spring stiffness, has panic override feature.

Edit - add "Life Guard", "Birdie" to the list of similar devices. Trango Vergo is ABD that functions slightly differently.

chris p wrote: With those three belay devices, what is the difference in terms of the mechanics in how they operate? Do they all function basically the same way? Are they essentially the same design, or is there some significant difference? 

I haven't used the eddy, but I've used the gri-gri and the matik.  Yes the mechanism works the same way (as in the rope pulls a cam up which pinches the rope to lock it up), however there is absolutely no comparrison in how they operate from a belayers perspective.  The matik is pretty much a worthless hunk of metal in terms of belayer useability whereas the gri gri is a very user friendly device.  If you want a device that you can use to lead belay and lower a climber without constantly short roping the climber and without lowering at a snails pace of about 1 foot per minute, get the gri-gri.

Jim Titt wrote: They all function the same way (the Eddy is the "other" way round). Buy a GriGri.

This is the correct answer.

Jim Titt wrote: They all function the same way (the Eddy is the "other" way round). Buy a GriGri.

As Jim recommends and don't also underestimate the desirability of the GG and the noted handling issues in this thread.

The utility of the GG for many other purposes ie rappelling, hauling, jugging, rope-solo etc are not to be discounted. Its the superior handling that makes these all viable too, not just that it belays a leader better.

Seriously one of the most valuable pieces of kit I own. Don't leave home without it.

I dig my MegaJul, but maybe that's just me... It doesn't work the same way though. It's just steel and geometry.

If you plan on doing any aid climbing or big walls don't get the gri gri plus. Go with the grigri or the grigri 2.

Brought the grigri plus to do the nose... Big mistake. That antipanic feature is the biggest pain in the ass for just about everything. Locks up in you if there is any sort of friction in the rope and you have to mash the thing down to get it to lower at all as it jus engages immediately.

If you're just gonna be cragging, the plus is fine. 

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

As Jim recommends and don't also underestimate the desirability of the GG and the noted handling issues in this thread.

The utility of the GG for many other purposes ie rappelling, hauling, jugging, rope-solo etc are not to be discounted. Its the superior handling that makes these all viable too, not just that it belays a leader better.

Seriously one of the most valuable pieces of kit I own. Don't leave home without it.

Funny, coming from the guy who's always harping on people for buying too much gear or wanking around with gear. It seems you're also a gear fanboy, just of a different flavor. ;)

To each, their own. 

eli poss wrote:

Funny, coming from the guy who's always harping on people for buying too much gear or wanking around with gear. It seems you're also a gear fanboy, just of a different flavor. ;)

To each, their own. 

No eli, once again you simply are making inaccurate assumptions :). Calling using a GG "gear wanking" is like calling modern Ascenders "gear wanking" vs. using Prussiks or using those new-fangled things called "spring activated cams" gear wanking instead of hexes.

I've owned a GG since they were invented in 1991 IIRC which is longer than you have been alive. They are an essential piece of modern kit that has evolved from a convenience item for sport projecting of routes to being invaluable for virtually anything I do on rock ie up and down fixed lines, new-routing, cleaning, belaying, bolting, rappelling, solo-top roping etc. etc.

Don't confuse my generally minimalist approach to gear with an inability to recognize something that actually adds utility. A GG adds an enormous amount of utility to modern climbing.

^^ Ditto what he said about the GriGri being an incredibly useful bit of gear.

Another reason to get the GriGri: because almost everyone else uses the GriGri also, and it is more convenient if your usual/preferred belay device is the same as what your parther(s) are bringing and using.

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

No eli, once again you simply are making inaccurate assumptions :). Calling using a GG "gear wanking" is like calling modern Ascenders "gear wanking" vs. using Prussiks or using those new-fangled things called "spring activated cams" gear wanking instead of hexes.

I've owned a GG since they were invented in 1991 IIRC which is longer than you have been alive. They are an essential piece of modern kit that has evolved from a convenience item for sport projecting of routes to being invaluable for virtually anything I do on rock ie up and down fixed lines, new-routing, cleaning, belaying, bolting, rappelling, solo-top roping etc. etc.

Don't confuse my generally minimalist approach to gear with an inability to recognize something that actually adds utility. A GG adds an enormous amount of utility to modern climbing.

No, tut, once again my sarcasm poking fun at you has flown over your head. I recognize the utility of the grigri and regularly use an industrial version of the grigri for work. Lighten up a little bit bud, you're missing all the fun of MP. 

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote: I've owned a GG since they were invented in 1991 

Commercially released in 1991.  Surely invented prior to the French patent application in 1989. 

eli poss wrote:

No, tut, once again my sarcasm poking fun at you has flown over your head. I recognize the utility of the grigri and regularly use an industrial version of the grigri for work. Lighten up a little bit bud, you're missing all the fun of MP. 

Try /sarcasm  bud. Its the internet, there is no "sarcastic" voice.

ps. That's Hamster Bongwaffle to you.

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

Try /sarcasm  bud. Its the internet, there is no "sarcastic" voice.

ps. That's Hamster Bongwaffle to you.

uuugggghh yeah I could do that but part of the humor is in the subtlety. I figured the winky face would be enough of a cue. Damn old people just don't understand the intricacies of the internet... Get off my internet lawn! /s  

And now that I've derailed the thread let's get back on topic:

As mentioned above, the eddy is kind of backwards compared to a grigri and most other cam style belay devices. Apparently, so I've heard, this makes it more ideal for roped soloing compared to a grigri. On the other hand, it also makes jugging with it slightly funky, especially if you've done a lot of jugging with a grigri.

After sitting around the gear closet for years, my eddy has actually seen the light of day a decent amount lately for going up and down fixed lines for hardware maintenance. I went from using a petzl rig (industrial grigri) + jumar to jug (with the little 3:1 where you redirect the brake strand of the rig) to using the eddy and a microtraxion and boy did I notice a difference.

The eddy is extra weird if you try to redirect the brake strand up through your top ascender. The result is that I lose about an inch with each stroke as I ascend. Not the end of the world, but also not ideal. The eddy is also very big and very heavy, although it looks pretty beefy so it can probably take one hell of a beating. I can't speak to it's performance as a belay device as I've never lead belayed with it and only TR belayed a few times.

The one thing I really like about the eddy is that it's anti-panic locking mechanism works pretty well and only took me a bumpy 25' on the first rappel to figure it out and find the sweet spot on the handle for lowering. Somebody mentioned that the gri+ anti-panic locking mechanism was very jumpy; I can't comment on the gri+ but I can tell you that isn't really the case for the eddy, which I found to be pretty smooth after a very short (25') learning curve. How much that matters is up to you and your personal preference.

What would you switch from using a jumar to a micro trax? The rig and jumar were on loan?

I used a rig a couple times setting at the climbing gym and though the locking mechanism is kinda nice, I found it to be a pain if I started to ascend while it was still locked. Probably something I’d get used to if I used a rig more.

For rebolting work, on the ropes I’m using (usually high 9 or low 10mm diameter) I’ve come to trust the grigri2 to not go anywhere. The first couple times out I was putting backup knots below, but now i don’t so I can easily move up/down the rope as needed. In that situation I’ve come to think of it as a hands free / auto-locking device, as if it were a completely different device than the thing I use for belaying others (when I would never take a brake hand off).

In my mind, grigris really are unparalleled with their multi-purpose usefulness. I haven’t used a Matik or Eddy, but I’ll say the Mad Rock Lifeguard is a similar design but the cam spring is more powerful which makes feeding slack easier, but I would want to do some testing before using it for rebolting work the way I do a grigri. From my limited experience (5-6 belays) with a WC Revo, I’d say it feeds extremely well and the locking mechanism seems le a great safety feature but I don’t know if it would work well for bolt work - id have to test it more as well. It’s also more expensive than a grigri

For bolting work the Revo would be terrible.

Drew Nevius wrote: What would you switch from using a jumar to a micro trax? The rig and jumar were on loan?

Yes, the jumar and the rig belong to the climbing wall where I set.

I used a rig a couple times setting at the climbing gym and though the locking mechanism is kinda nice, I found it to be a pain if I started to ascend while it was still locked. Probably something I’d get used to if I used a rig more.

Yeah I found it to be a pain the first month or so and then I just got better at remembering to unlock before I go back to jugging.

For rebolting work, on the ropes I’m using (usually high 9 or low 10mm diameter) I’ve come to trust the grigri2 to not go anywhere. The first couple times out I was putting backup knots below, but now i don’t so I can easily move up/down the rope as needed. In that situation I’ve come to think of it as a hands free / auto-locking device, as if it were a completely different device than the thing I use for belaying others (when I would never take a brake hand off).

I mostly treat the eddy like this, although sometimes I will tie an overhand in the brake strand if I'm gonna be staying in one spot for a while. This, IMO, is where it would be really nice to have the rig instead of my eddy so I can just lock it in place.