Best avy shovel? also: WTB

This is for the BC skiers out there and the ice climbers who carry avy equipment where appropriate. (If you're not, you should be.) I need to replace my probe and shovel. I had a BCA Stealth probe that I really liked so will probably go with that again. Shopping around a little more carefully for the shovel this time--the blade was so big on the last one (BD) that it was difficult to get out of the pack--no bueno.

Recommendations? And how about the shovel with the handle you can flip to make it a....hoe? How useful in the field would that be? Would you actually take the time to flip it when you move to the back of the pit?

Would certainly entertain buying gently used shovel, if its the right model.

TIA!

The caa (canadian Avalanche association) did a fairly comprehensive study a few years ago- the voile family of shovels were the only ones that didn’t get totally fucked up during testing. I’ll try to find a link to post here.

Dara wrote: Recommendations? And how about the shovel with the handle you can flip to make it a....hoe? How useful in the field would that be? Would you actually take the time to flip it when you move to the back of the pit?

You should just swap shovels when you change positions if you have one set up in hoe mode.

Most shovels are pretty much the same I think. I got a lightweight Mammut one that seems fine. If you're having trouble fitting it in your bag get a smaller bladed one?

Edit: Here's the link Graham was looking for I think. It's worth noting it's a pretty old 'study'.

The Volie shovels are good.  Choose one with a LONG handle. Don't look for light weight.  Shoveling avy debris is hard work.

For a probe, get one 300cm or longer.  Light weight probes are too easily deflected and short ones may not reach the target.

https://www.voile.com/AvalancheVol86_54-60.pdf    oh, sorry. Didn't notice it had already been posted by Beean

Graham Johnson wrote: https://www.voile.com/AvalancheVol86_54-60.pdf    oh, sorry. Didn't notice it had already been posted by Beean

This study is fairly controversial and results should be taken with a large grain of salt. They were stomping on the back edge of the shovels which destroyed the shovels and the tester's boots. This is not how you use an avalanche shovel in a rescue scenario. Black Diamond actually penned a well written response letter which I have copied below:

January 13, 2009

Subject: Recent European Shovel Review.

A few of you have brought up this shovel review conducted in Europe by the Austrian Alpine Club (published in Europe by Bergundsteigen) and I want share my thoughts on why we disagree with both the objective and the results, as well as share what some other shovel manufacturers are saying about this flawed test.

Just two years ago in Europe we were credited with bringing improved safety and reliability to avalanche shovels by bringing to market metal shovels that competed with the popular plastic models without compromising weight or cramping space. Reviews were stellar. In the attached shovel report carried out by Manuel Genswein and Ragnhild Eide of the Austrian Alpine Club, a seemingly non-existent bar was raised to which our shovel and our competitors’ models were benchmarked to ditch-digging type of utilitarian shovels.

In our view, the technique used in the test involving hammering down with ski boots onto the back edge of the shovels is only used for and should only be used for, dead body recovery. We have questioned several seasoned professional patrollers about this technique just to be sure, and none of them have ever dug in a rescue search in the manner described in this test. Most commonly, rescuers are down on their knees chopping and shoveling very quickly. Digging with feet in a rescue scenario is very dangerous for a buried victim and such a test advocates and promotes an unusual, dangerous method.

We concur with these official statements about the test by other avalanche shovel manufacturers:

Pieps: “Basically you can destroy any piece of equipment, if you want…The strike with your foot method is dangerous for the victim…For this test to use this method and call it correct blade use is dangerous to publish…Such articles contribute to unjustified insecurity for many alpinists and are not consistent with the information and knowledge with which this journal has become popular.”

Ortovox: “…We believe that so-called tests like the one…by Manuel Genswein and Ragnhild Eide only create uncertainty for consumers…. The results of this test are not comprehensible.”

In an extreme case, when there is a very big avalanche that’s packed so cement-solid that avalanche rescue shovels would break when pounded on by boots, rescue crews are using steel bladed, wood handled shovels to dig out dead bodies. This is not what our shovels are designed to do. They are not for digging ditches in glaciers. They are for snow pit and avalanche emergencies, they are rapid response tools. With this in mind, we’ve designed our shovels for optimal snow volume capacity, ease and quickness of deployment, ergonomics, lightweight, and strength (within parameters of safe and realistic use).

Several of these other design points were brought up in the test and here’s a little information on each:

Grip design: Modern versions of the T grip handle like ours with rounder, ergonomic shaping were complimented in the article “except for rescuers with small hands”. Just like glove fitting, there is such a wide range of hand sizes and shapes that it’s impossible to cover the whole range in one design. We did a lot of testing when designing our shovel grip, including a range of smaller hands and created our grip to fit the widest range. The advantage of an ergonomic T grip over a D grip, are many. T grips fit better in packs than D grips. D grips that are carried on the outside of packs are dangerous as they can get caught on objects such as tree branches. While shoveling, T grips offer far more control to the grip hand where D grips, because they can rotate in the hand, offer little control making the shaft hand do all the control work.

Blade shape: The back edge of our shovels is not designed to be smashed on by boots. It is designed to hold and move a lot of snow, quickly. Shovels in the test that did well with boots, which have a flatter back edge design, simply do not hold the volume of snow that our shovels do, which we find, in normal rescue digging situations, to be most important.

Shaft shape: Our Trapezoidal shaft shape was found to “…exhibit more resistance while mounting, removing or adjusting the length, but will not waste time aligning the push-pin with the extension hole”. When it comes to quick deployment, we’ve found that pin alignment during extension is far more important than the very slight resistance one may feel over a round shaft while extending. When every second counts, the importance between these two things is not even comparable.

In the criteria mentioned above, we are the best on the market and we will continue to create shovels with these criteria in mind, which we feel best cater to the true needs of rescuers, not for the very extreme, dangerous, subjective, and unusual criteria of this latest magazine test.

Thanks for reading our response and passing it along to anyone concerned.

Tor Brown
Black Diamond Equipment
Product Line Manager - Ski Category 

Vaughn wrote:

This study is fairly controversial and results should be taken with a large grain of salt. They were stomping on the back edge of the shovels which destroyed the shovels and the tester's boots. This is not how you use an avalanche shovel in a rescue scenario. Black Diamond actually penned a well written response letter which I have copied below:

Yeah I agree that calling it a 'study' is a real stretch. 

Where did you dig up that response? (ha ha ha)

I have the Voile Telepro T6 (vs. a smaller one) for the reasons linked to in the article above. I would also recommend an aluminum probe (vs. carbon) for durability as you've chosen.

After few years of avy terrain travel/practice and two avy courses I've come to prefer heavier/more durable avy rescue gear. I've snapped a carbon probe and didn't feel as efficient when practicing with a smaller shovel - definitely prefer a large scoop, extendable shaft, and D-handle.

David wrote: I have the Voile Telepro T6 (vs. a smaller one) for the reasons linked to in the article above. I would also recommend an aluminum probe (vs. carbon) for durability as you've chosen.

After few years of avy terrain travel/practice and two avy courses I've come to prefer heavier/more durable avy rescue gear. I've snapped a carbon probe and didn't feel as efficient when practicing with a smaller shovel - definitely prefer a large scoop, extendable shaft, and D-handle.

M Jarmland wrote: If I was in the market for a shovel I’d get an Ice Rock Ray.

http://icerockequipment.com/en/catalog/avalanche-equipment/avalanche-shovel-ray-ultralight

I’ve got their Idol ice axe and it’s just ridiculously nice! So well made and balanced. And it’s 188 grams. Yes, 188.

Can i ask how much it set you back?

M Jarmland wrote: If I was in the market for a shovel I’d get an Ice Rock Ray.

http://icerockequipment.com/en/catalog/avalanche-equipment/avalanche-shovel-ray-ultralight

I’ve got their Idol ice axe and it’s just ridiculously nice! So well made and balanced. And it’s 188 grams. Yes, 188.

The handle looks too short and carbon fiber may not be the best material and light weight is not necessarily your friend..  Avy debris solidifies very quickly due to the heat emitted during the slide.  If you have ever shoveled avy debris you  probably know that you need a very sturdy shovel with a long handle.  

Vaughn wrote:

This study is fairly controversial and results should be taken with a large grain of salt. They were stomping on the back edge of the shovels which destroyed the shovels and the tester's boots. This is not how you use an avalanche shovel in a rescue scenario. Black Diamond actually penned a well written response letter which I have copied below:

On the other hand, from what I've seen the avy shovels of ten years ago are practically made of tissue paper compared to nearly every shovel I've seen made in the last five.

Thanks everyone! I went with the Voile on your recommendations, and it did not break the bank. 

That study is well over a decade old! Nearly all those shovels have been re-designed or are no longer on the market. I like Voile but they have been very slow to change or innovate, in 2019 they are behind the curve in my opinion. I really like the BCA RS ext with hoe mode. 

A shovel hoe is the way to go. In most cases one can move way more material with a hoe, than a blade. Further, a small blade is more functional than a big blade. Any debris sets up like concrete, taking smaller but more bites is more efficient than fewer but larger bites. The one shown can be both a shovel or a hoe and folds completely over so is quite compact. Bonus the handle is not removable no assembly required. The screw lock should be dry lubed so to prevent it from freezing up. 

M Jarmland wrote: If I was in the market for a shovel I’d get an Ice Rock Ray.

http://icerockequipment.com/en/catalog/avalanche-equipment/avalanche-shovel-ray-ultralight

That's a good-looking shovel, if a shovel could be said to be good-looking. But it seems like it would appeal mainly to skimo racers who want to keep their pack as light as possible while complying with ISMF rules, and who don't mind paying CAD 375 (about USD 300). For general backcountry use I'd prefer something with a metal blade. On the other hand, it seems to be sturdier than the current de facto standard for skimo shovels, which is a 250g CAMP shovel with a flimsy plastic blade: https://www.camp-usa.com/outdoor/product/snow-gear/crest-snow-shovel.

As a skier I like a more burly shovel, but as a climber I find the weight intolerable. If I'm carrying and ice/mixed rack and double ropes on top of my avy gear and maybe skis too I want that avy gear to be LIGHT, or I'm liable to leave it home and just take my chances. For that I got the Arva Plume shovel. It has a full sized aluminum blade and carbon fiber shaft, saving you 207g (35% weight savings) over a standard fully aluminum shovel (e.g. BCA shovel), for basically the same cost (~$70). A fully carbon fiber shovel will save you more weight (another 150g or so depending on the model, 60% weight savings) but cost you $200-$300.

It is not super durable, and I have some slight concerns about how the carbon fiber shaft would hold up to poor technique when digging through debris (no issues with snow pit digging so far, but you never know without testing it in the real deal), but I take it out with noticeably less hesitation when climbing than I used to take out my fully aluminum shovel in the past. If you ever find yourself hesitating over the weight when going out climbing, the Arva Plume is worth looking at.