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big wall free climbing hauling techniques.

Original Post
Jake Thomson · · Yosemite · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 5

probably a really dumb question. In terms of big wall free climbing, its very rare to see someone tagging a line in any pictures i see. which makes sense, a couple pounds can make a big difference.  so i guess my question is what is the usual system for this?

how i would imagine is:  second jugs/climbs lead line, cleaning route, but leaves lead line fixed to lower anchor. after reaching top of pitch, one person rappels down to release the bags. release lead line from anchor. jug back up and free bag if it catches on something.

or

leader fixes lead line, leader raps down, cleaning on rap, jugs up with haul line.continue as normal.

either would probably work, would be nice to know if anyone has experience on the fastest/most efficient method.

Brent Barghahn · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 2,083

Usually for free multiday things, climbing and hauling are done in series. Leader first climbs the pitch with a tag line (either the haul line itself or a lighter cord to pull up the haul line once at the anchor). The leader then at least hauls the bag until it is off the lower belay, but usually hauls it all the way up. Finally, the leader then belays the second up like normal.

A few special cases are:
The second follows on a microtraction on the fixed lead rope so they can climb while the leader is hauling. Very fast for easier pitches!

The climbers are reclimbing a hard pitch. In this case, the haul line may be already fixed to the top of the pitch or they plan to lower back to the belay anyways. Likely the case for many video or photo shots since the camera person is probably hanging off the top anchor.

Items are prestashed on the wall to where little or no hauling is going on.

NegativeK · · Nevada · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 40

Related: how do belay slaves on ascenders follow walls? Do they bring a wall rack and re-aid traverses or whatever when the leader didn't place gear every four feet?

frog pirate · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2018 · Points: 0

I'm not sure what pictures or videos you are watching, but when i'm nerding out on big wall stuff there is always either the haul line or a tag line clipped to the leader. Rapping back down after both parties have already done the pitch and then jugging back up yet again is a colossal waste of time. It should go a little something like this in a party of two: Leader climbs pitch with monster rack and either the haul line or a tag line clipped to them as well. At end of pitch go in direct at anchor. Pull up all the slack on the lead line and fix it to the anchor for second to jug on. Either pull up remaining haul line or pull up tag line with extra anchor kit, haul system, and haul line attached. Set up haul system and then have the second release the haul bags from the lower anchor so the leader can haul while the second jugs and cleans the pitch. If pig gets stuck the second may be in a position to help free it to save leader having to rap down and mess with it. Rinse and repeat.

From all the videos i've watched on youtube, a lot of people have a terrible time hauling and it can make or break their ascent. I usually see them trying to haul 1:1 and having a horrific time with it. I have made sure I am absolutely rock solid on 2:1 hauling before we hit The Nose next year, and have a plan B as well. Thanks Mr Hudon.

http://hudonpanos.com/Wall-Tips/2-to-1-Hauling.pdf

Jake Thomson · · Yosemite · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 5

Hey frog pirate, key word free climbing.

frog pirate · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2018 · Points: 0

There is a lot of free climbing done on the nose?

If you mean really hard free climbing then you could do it the way you describe for the hard pitches, it's going to cost you a lot of time though.

Jake Thomson · · Yosemite · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 5
Brent Barghahn wrote: Usually for free multiday things, climbing and hauling are done in series. Leader first climbs the pitch with a tag line (either the haul line itself or a lighter cord to pull up the haul line once at the anchor). The leader then at least hauls the bag until it is off the lower belay, but usually hauls it all the way up. Finally, the leader then belays the second up like normal.

A few special cases are:
The second follows on a microtraction on the fixed lead rope so they can climb while the leader is hauling. Very fast for easier pitches!

The climbers are reclimbing a hard pitch. In this case, the haul line may be already fixed to the top of the pitch or they plan to lower back to the belay anyways. Likely the case for many video or photo shoot since the camera person is probably hanging off the top anchor.

Items are prestashed on the wall to where little or no hauling is going on.

I guess that makes sense considering pretty much all the pictured off the top of my head are shot from above the climbers and they are pros. Thanks for the tips.

Kristoffer Wickstrom · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 51
NegativeK wrote: Related: how do belay slaves on ascenders follow walls? Do they bring a wall rack and re-aid traverses or whatever when the leader didn't place gear every four feet?

watch this youtube link. 

If the last piece of gear is natural pro that I don't want to leave I will do this same style of lower-out off a hook or camhook.  Rather than unclip the bight at the end of the lower-out I just whip the 4 stands of rope to dislodge the hook / cam hook and retrieve it that way. 

https://youtu.be/s-kcHabPFls
NegativeK · · Nevada · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 40

Ahh. I assume, then, that it just doesn't happen that often that you're lowering out on hooks all day?

Paul Hutton · · Nephi, UT · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 740

I imagine some people prefer to worry about tagging and hauling after a hard, technical lead, so they go back down to get the tag line. That tag line is extra weight, and more straining when trying to keep your feet from getting tangled.

Kristoffer Wickstrom · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 51

NegativeK, it really depends... The few times I have been solely cleaned walls for a leader who is primarily freeing everything, I found everywhere I needed to lower out, there was fixed gear to do so.  none the less, knowing that you can do it, and how to do it can save you alot of frustration when cleaning a wandering pitch on something obscure or lacking fixed gear.

NegativeK · · Nevada · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 40
Kristoffer wrote: NegativeK, it really depends... The few times I have been solely cleaned walls for a leader who is primarily freeing everything, I found everywhere I needed to lower out, there was fixed gear to do so.  none the less, knowing that you can do it, and how to do it can save you alot of frustration when cleaning a wandering pitch on something obscure or lacking fixed gear.

Thanks for the info, my dude. I've been wondering about that one for a while.

Mark Hudon · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420
frog pirate wrote: There is a lot of free climbing done on the nose?
Consider the Nose a free climb with a bit of aid. Go with a free climbing mindset. You could free climb probably 85% of it at .10c.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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