Alpine butterfly visual inspection not as easy as I thought

I used to think I could tell an alpine butterfly is tied correctly just by looking at the result.  Recently I found a wrong way to tie it that looks surprisingly similar.

FOTH shows this method (equivalent to the popular 3-wraps-around-the-fingers method):

Suppose we do the first step wrong - no twist (note the edited bottom overlap):

(then b & c as above)

The result looks very similar (from some angles indistinguishable) but is definitely different - less "interlocked", it can actually be taken apart in 2 distinct steps.  I could picture it coming loose and falling apart when used as a bend (tying 2 ends together).  For tying in the middle on a 3-person team I think it's less serious, but the loose loop could theoretically slide over the biner and load it across the gate.

It is possible to detect this mistake visually once you know what to look for, but when I first tried it I thought I got the right knot.

Thanks for heads up.
Perhaps you could explain how you, personally, tie alpine butterfly - the way I do it  is impossible without the twist.

Easier to do it using the three loops over the hand method. I probably tie this knot more than any other knot because it's my go to knot for bigwalling setups. 

Here's a video some dude made of the method.
0:19-0:45
Here's a CLimbing mag illustration of the method
https://www.climbing.com/skills/the-butterfly-knot/

Helpful graphic:

The incorrect knot created by your modified diagram is #3: "Wings not interlocked"

Also, try this visual knot identification quiz: ropelab.com.au/ropelab-quiz…

When did alpine get added to the name of a butterfly knot?

Perry Norris wrote: When did alpine get added to the name of a butterfly knot?

Apparently around 1928 in "knots for climbers" in  Alpine Journal 

what are the dangers of tying it "wrong"? technical and circumstantial

With wings not interlocked, the knot can easily come undone as the loop can slide off the bight.  If there is something in the bight it will choke down on it.

“One twist, two twist. Have you met my friend- he likes to stick his head between his legs and up his butt”
That’s how I was taught- I tie it correctly and crack myself up at the same time. 

Graham Johnson wrote: “One twist, two twist. Have you met my friend- he likes to stick his head between his legs and up his butt”
That’s how I was taught- I tie it correctly and crack myself up at the same time. 

"Under the nuts and through the guts" every time.

kevin deweese wrote: Easier to do it using the three loops over the hand method. I probably tie this knot more than any other knot because it's my go to knot for bigwalling setups.

Here's a video some dude made of the method.
0:19-0:45
Here's a CLimbing mag illustration of the method
https://www.climbing.com/skills/the-butterfly-knot/

This is super handy! Thanks!!

I would just point out to anyone watching that the "starting position" in the video and the link are slightly different. The way it is done in the climbing.com link overlays the last part of the wrap over the rest of the wrap so you don't have to do the first step shown in the video (pull the middle strand under the outside strand).

I really appreciate this thread.  Like many others I found myself creating what I thought was an alpine butterfly knot... And it never failed me, but in trying to teach my son I realized I've been making a mistake all these years. I've learned, I'll fix it for myself and I'll teach him the correct way moving forward.  Now I can't help but reflect upon those times that I could have unknowingly put myself or others in danger.  Fortunately nothing ever happened.  Apparently whatever knot I WAS trying was pretty secure anyway... I guess...

Just to throw another method in the mix, this is my favorite for tying the AB:

Jordan Gans wrote: Just to throw another method in the mix, this is my favorite for tying the AB:

Cool method, but I wish the video was a bit more instructional on how to actually execute the technique. The way this is shot, it's like they're trying to make it look like a magic trick. I had to slow down playback to actually see how they're doing it.

Andrew Krajnik wrote:

Cool method, but I wish the video was a bit more instructional on how to actually execute the technique. The way this is shot, it's like they're trying to make it look like a magic trick. I had to slow down playback to actually see how they're doing it.

Sorry. I'll record a better one. This one I posted around the same time is slower because I was showing how you can tie a ginormous loop more easily using that method. [edit- slightly different method]

Gregger Man wrote:

Sorry. I'll record a better one. This one I posted around the same time is slower because I was showing how you can tie a ginormous loop more easily using that method.

Ah, didn't realize that was your video, Greg. I was able to figure it out from the first video once I slowed it down. Thanks for posting this one as well.

I’ll have to practice that a time or two and see if it’s harder with gloves, but I think that’s my favorite method yet for tying an alpine butterfly. Luckily (?) I’m in quarantine again for a show and have nothing but time on my hands, sitting in a wall tent in Alaska. Thanks, Greg!

RandyLee wrote: I’ll have to practice that a time or two and see if it’s harder with gloves, but I think that’s my favorite method yet for tying an alpine butterfly. Luckily (?) I’m in quarantine again for a show and have nothing but time on my hands, sitting in a wall tent in Alaska. Thanks, Greg!

Agreed, this looks like a winning method, in my book. I tried it out, and immediately liked it. Didin't try it with gloves, though.

I prefer the twist method to the hand wrap. 

New video. I included a yet another method for tying a butterfly on a fixed line. Useful at an anchor.

Gregger Man wrote: New video. I included a yet another method for tying a butterfly on a fixed line. Useful at an anchor.

Cool method. It's easier to get the right length of loop for equalizing anchors with this method. The handful of times I've tried it so far the knot looks weird at first and after messing with it a bit to get it dressed it ends up kinda the mirror image of the hand winding method posted above.