Petal Attache screw gate locked

A quick PSA.  I was at the top of a multi pitch climb in the Trapps on Saturday when I used a barely-used Petzl Attache screw gate to set up my hollow block before rapping.  I realized I didnt like how the rope was running through the hollow block and because we were waiting for a party to clear the station below us figured Id just quickly re-do it.  But when I went to unscrew the biner, I couldn't.  My partner tried, no luck.  it was STUCK... I eventually unbuckled my leg loop, and pulled the entire length of the rope up through the hollow block and used another locker and sling for back up on the rappel.  I later took the biner to Rock and Snow and the guys there used vice grips and quite a bit of muscle before the screw gate broke. We were all shocked at how much force it took to break the screw gate. The biner was clean and could have gone back on the rack at the shop and many would never have noticed.

Of course later all kinds of WHAT IF scenarios went through my head.  Luckily I carry a little knife with me so I could cut my self out of most worst-case scenarios, but damn, could have been worse.

Has anyone else had such an experience with these biners? I love how smooth they are but im scared to be in a similar (if worse) situation in the future....

Yes. Had it happen twice with new Petzl lockers. Also Needed a pair of vice grips to open one as well. Interestingly it has only happened to my new ones. And before people say it, no, it was not locked under tension. 

Wow, that's kind of scary. You don't normally think about wanting your biners to come unlocked, usually the opposite. I've heard that sometimes if you lock a biner while it is weight then it can't be unlocked unless it is weighted. 

JRZane wrote: A quick PSA.  I was at the top of a multi pitch climb in the Trapps on Saturday when I used a barely-used Petzl Attache screw gate to set up my hollow block before rapping.  I realized I didnt like how the rope was running through the hollow block and because we were waiting for a party to clear the station below us figured Id just quickly re-do it.  But when I went to unscrew the biner, I couldn't.  My partner tried, no luck.  it was STUCK... I eventually unbuckled my leg loop, and pulled the entire length of the rope up through the hollow block and used another locker and sling for back up on the rappel.  I later took the biner to Rock and Snow and the guys there used vice grips and quite a bit of muscle before the screw gate broke. We were all shocked at how much force it took to break the screw gate. The biner was clean and could have gone back on the rack at the shop and many would never have noticed.

Of course later all kinds of WHAT IF scenarios went through my head.  Luckily I carry a little knife with me so I could cut my self out of most worst-case scenarios, but damn, could have been worse.

Has anyone else had such an experience with these biners? I love how smooth they are but im scared to be in a similar (if worse) situation in the future....

Did you try weighting it to unscrew it?

However, ALL lockers can freeze up if a piece of grit gets into the mechanism. The tight tolerances of the new Petzl Attaches seem prone.

One more reason to limit the number you use, and only use them for truly required purposes.

The old round stock ones are like gold. New ones, not so much.

I had a Pearabiner I had body weight on get stuck, but it was my fault.

HINT:  once you have a biner loaded, don't screw the gate any further, it will get stuck. Screw it shut when NOT weighted, and then leave it alone. 

When I use any locker, I run it to the end, then back it off about half a turn. For just this reason

I have encountered this twice in the past year with new Petzl Spirit carabiners. 1: was able to unthread cordelette from toprope anchor 2: friend had to cut their PAS. Both were clipped to bolts/chains so I couldn't retrieve the carabiner. They were not weighted when locking, weighting didn't help unlocking, and didn't use excessive force to lock, just screwed to the end of the natural range. I have a 4yo attache carabiner that I haven't had any problems with. But I have switched to other brands of lockers for this reason. Always carry a knife.

Here's another thread from last Sep of this issue: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/115358707/newer-petzl-attache-locking-biner-seizing

I really don’t think I weighted it and THEN locked it. And if I did it was only the weight of a rope hanging down a cliff face, certainly not body weight.

But I will be keeping in mind the interaction of a screw gates and being weighted in the future.

There's really no need to tighten a screwgate all the way. The mechanism is only to prevent the gate opening. Tighter does not mean stronger or safer.

Weighting it a bit will often allow a stuck one to turn.

Many climbers use lockers where they don't need to.

was it orange or silver

The issue with petzl lockers is that there isn't anything to stop the barrel from jamming up against the top of the threads, almost every other brand puts a price of wire on the gate to prevent this.

I've seen a very pretty, brand new black(!) petzl sprit locker get welded shut at the Trapps. I basically tried bouncing on it while trying to open the gate. No luck. DMM has a new HMS locker that looks like the attache. They had something very comparable (small, I-beam crossection D shape, lightweight) to the spirit locker. I know others who prefer the DMM screwgates for canyoneering and feel that they're better than petzl's. They may be worth looking into.

Yikes! Glad you got out of there in good form. Yes you should definitely send that ‘biner to Petzl. They have a ton of pride in their carabiners and they’ll want to see it and, for sure, they’ll give you a new one.

As for the old problem of screw gates jamming, that issue was addressed 15 or so years ago when locking carabiners went to “gate-locking” from “frame-locking”. Old style frame-locking carabiners used the nose (part of the frame) against which the screw collar would jam. Screw the collar up against the frame to jam it, then when you’d weight the frame it stretches a bit and loosenss the gate which then you tighten up to make sure it’s secure. Then when you release the load the collar is so jammed up you can’t get it undone. All modern screw lock carabiners are of the “gate-lock” style which shouldn’t do that. You can tell a gate-lock carabiner because when you screw the collar shut, there’s still a little bit of movement of the gate against frame. There’ll be slight click. What happens is that the collar screws up against a stop inside the mechanism which prevents the collar from jamming against the nose.

If the Attaché in question jammed against the frame, then the stop was missing. You would have been able to tell if this was the issue because there would have been zero movement of the gate against the frame. If, on the other hand, there was some movement between the gate and the frame, then the there had to have been a failure inside the screw mechanism. 
Whatever, glad you’re safe and send that Attaché to Petzl ASAP.

Climb safe,
Mal

Buck Rio wrote: The old round stock ones are like gold. New ones, not so much.

I like the new ones, but I always use a carabiner with a round cross-section (like the old ones) for belay duty.  Saves so much energy when guide mode belaying!

JRZane wrote: A quick PSA.  I was at the top of a multi pitch climb in the Trapps on Saturday when I used a barely-used Petzl Attache screw gate to set up my hollow block before rapping.  I realized I didnt like how the rope was running through the hollow block and because we were waiting for a party to clear the station below us figured Id just quickly re-do it.  But when I went to unscrew the biner, I couldn't.  My partner tried, no luck.  it was STUCK... I eventually unbuckled my leg loop, and pulled the entire length of the rope up through the hollow block and used another locker and sling for back up on the rappel.  I later took the biner to Rock and Snow and the guys there used vice grips and quite a bit of muscle before the screw gate broke. We were all shocked at how much force it took to break the screw gate. The biner was clean and could have gone back on the rack at the shop and many would never have noticed.

Of course later all kinds of WHAT IF scenarios went through my head.  Luckily I carry a little knife with me so I could cut my self out of most worst-case scenarios, but damn, could have been worse.

Has anyone else had such an experience with these biners? I love how smooth they are but im scared to be in a similar (if worse) situation in the future....

Happened to me too haha.  Had to file through it with my leatherman I luckily had on me.  I love those biners too.  I have since switched to other lockers for the majority of my needs, but to save weight I still use the attaches for non-critical components that won’t end up being the only biner under tension dangling me above the void.  As a rule, if it is a use where I couldn’t slide a second biner into and then cut off the attache, I won’t use it 

I've had this problem with the Attaches AND the Spirit lockers.  Luckily I've been able to weight and unweight the biners repeatedly and eventually get them open with just my hands, but it was still an enormous waste of time.

Oddly, I only had this issue with biners I bought after the start of 2018--Attaches and Spirits from 2017 and earlier I've never had any issues with. I wonder if they changed something in their manufacturing.

This is part of why I've switched almost entirely over to Sm'D twist-locks. Haven't had this issue with a twist-lock biner yet.

I’ve had the same issue with two orange and one black attaché.  Stopped using them and moved onto sm’d twist and round stock attaches. 

this happens with petzl lockers especially the attache def not new news had it happen with the original model and the new one.
wd40 usually will fix the problem.  Id recommend the rock exotica pirate locker as those biners gates never seem to clog up.

I Do alot of slot canyons and nothing jams a biner like sand in a slot canyon and the pirate opens every time where as all other biners tend to clog up at some point.

                         The gate on the pirate is also offset so it opens more allowing for easier on and off.  

Haha I've bootied stuck spirit lockers on two occasions. I just find a big rock and whack it a few times. Loosens it right up

wtf? how is this not more widely known? here I am working hard, getting to the point in my life where I can finally afford nice stuff,  I bought 2 new attaches because of how damn smooth they are and this shit happens??  even worse, I commented to a friend how nice her spirit lockers were and she gifted me 2 as well! so now I have 4 basically new biners, $60 worth, that I'm going to be terrified of using.....thanks petzl.....the F'n French man....stick to the baguettes!!

JRZane wrote: wtf? how is this not more widely known? here I am working hard, getting to the point in my life where I can finally afford nice stuff,  I bought 2 new attaches because of how damn smooth they are and this shit happens??  even worse, I commented to a friend how nice her spirit lockers were and she gifted me 2 as well! so now I have 4 basically new biners, $60 worth, that I'm going to be terrified of using.....thanks petzl.....the F'n French man....stick to the baguettes!!

Don't be afraid of using the Attaché or the Spirits, they are awesome biners. The Frenchie's are fine, its those effing Italians you have to be worried about. And don't get me started on the Swiss.