Climbing Grade History: Skipping a Grade?

Calling all climbing grade historians:
Has anyone ever climbed something two grades above the highest grade at the time?

Example, imagine:

• Current hardest climb in the world is 5.13d 
• Super strong climber who is ahead of his/her time establishes a first ascent harder than any current climbs. Calls it 5.14a (the logical progression)
• More climbs at and around the grade are climbed by more people, only to have the consensus ultimately rest at 5.14b

Same question for bouldering grades.

The current equivalent would be if Burden of Dreams ​eventually was called v18 or if Silence ​was upgraded to 5.16a (even though I think this extremely unlikely)

A prominent example I can think of is Action Directe, which is debated as the "first 9a", despite not originally given that grade until consensus later. Not quite jumping two grades like you're suggesting, but similar.

John Gill did it in 1959 with the Gill Problem on Red Cross Rock, jumping grades from 5.10 to 5.13. If you don't want to accept that one, his solo of the Thimble in the Needles in 1961 jumped grades from 5.10 to 5.12. However, I don't know how others graded the routes at the time (Gill used only B1, B2, and B3).

The example that seems to fit the OP's description best is Hubble. At the time of the FA by Ben Moon (1990), the hardest established routes were 8c. Hubble was thought to be quite a bit harder than them, hence was graded 8c+. Over the years, as the 8c+ and 9a grades got more established, there were murmorings that Hubble was hard for 8c+, perhaps harder than 8c+. In the last couple of years, some people (including Ben Moon) have started calling it 9a. If so it would be, retroactively, the first route of the grade. I'm not sure if there is a proper consensus on this yet though. 

JCM wrote: The example that seems to fit the OP's description best is Hubble. At the time of the FA by Ben Moon (1990), the hardest established routes were 8c. Hubble was thought to be quite a bit harder than them, hence was graded 8c+. Over the years, as the 8c+ and 9a grades got more established, there were murmorings that Hubble was hard for 8c+, perhaps harder than 8c+. In the last couple of years, some people (including Ben Moon) have started calling it 9a. If so it would be, retroactively, the first route of the grade. I'm not sure if there is a proper consensus on this yet though. 

Whoops, I got my Hubble and Action Directe mixed up. This and Action Directe are the climbs debated as being the "first 9a".

it has happened many times at the lower grades.  5.6 becomes 5.8 on many  of the old sandbags... 

Grand Ole' Oprey went from 14a to 14c

New Deal FA by Scott Cosgrove 13d og rating now 14a

Akira was proposed 5.15b when 5.15a wasn't established (Huber had done Open Air but called it 14d, it was pre-Biographie). People ridiculed Fred and asserted that either it wasn't that hard, or that he didn't do it at all. Folks have seen him link large portions and nobody has repeated it since..... very possibly legit.

Chilean Balam was proposed 5.15c before 5.15b was established (ignoring Akira), but nobody believed Bernabe actually did it, in part because he couldn't even identify who belayed him. Its since been repeated and checks in at soft 5.15b last I checked.

Open Air is more a case study in grade conversion antics and grief than of exemplary bounds.

I think some John Gaskins problems might get a nod to atleast V16 if anyone ever repeats them (but they were put up in the V15 era). Caldwell's 5.15a Flex Luthor has similarly turned away all challengers including some very worthy folks. 

You are probably going to have to go back prior to the use of the YDS to find some examples  Oliver Perry Smith in Dresden over 100 years ago.  Or Aleister Crowley in the UK in the late 1800's.  Or as mentioned upstream - Yaniro's Grand Illusion.  Some of John Gill's problems too

boat loads of 9+ climbs are really some kind of 11...

Nivel Egres wrote: Jim Holloway has done a bunch of problems way before his time. Trice is graded V12 and was done in 1975, Meathook is (apparently) a consensus v11 and was done in 1977 etc. 

To my knowledge, the only person to repeat Trice in the original Holloway method was Fred Nicole. Everyone else used a high pocket foot off tomone side. I think in interviews Jim basically said "the line wasn't meant to be an eliminate, doesn't hurt my feelings"

I think "Cheathook" the standstart to Meathook has been repeated a bunch (Scott Blunk, Mammen, Sherman), but Meathook and Slapshot have never seen proper repeats. One broke a long while back when the start hold pulled off and was allegedly glued back on upside down.

when the YDS was first formulated, "5.9" was defined as "the limit of human ability".  this definition resulted in numerous rating upgrades as improvements in gear and training raised the "limit of human ability".   John Gill's boulder problems are one iconic example.  others include Sun Ribbon Arete - Don Jensen was a mathematician, and a realist, who reasoned "I'm not the definition of human ability, therefore my climbs are not 5.9", so he rated Sun Ribbon Arete 5.8 -- now rated 5.10

In Boulder, CO., Larry Dahlke was infamous back in the 60s, and his name became part of an area joke:  referring to 5.10 or 11 as a "Dahlke 5.9"

over the history of the use of the YDS, upgrading climbs more than a grade is not particularly uncommon - especially as little-known climbs get more traffic.

I think an equally fun question is, has anyone ever climbed a route 2 number grades above their previous redpoint record?

Goodro's Wall in Big Cottonwood, SLC, is 5.10c.  Went up in the late 1940s.  Open Book, which I believe was the standard first 5.9, was 1952, right?

caughtinside wrote: 
Going back to 70s trad, I think when Grand Illusion was put up at 13c, the previous hardest climb in the US was 13a? 

Some versions I've heard is that Grand Illusion was the first of any sort of 5.13 put up (not sure if this is in the US or worldwide).  Phoenix went up before it, but Jardine never sent it on lead by today's standards.

On his "world tour" in the late 1970's Henry Barber would go to an area and do climbs (almost  always an on-sight-red-point) way harder than the area's hardest; but were some two full grades higher.  I'd guess at least some of them were.

It was said (in the Waterman's well-researched "Yankee Rock") that in the 1930's Fritz Wiessner climbed "so far ahead of the existing standards that, unlike H. Barber and others [e.g. Jim McCarthy at Gunks], he did NOT appreciably affect the climbing grades".  [quote is probably not word-for-word, but that is the gist.]

The committing and crux rock move on the West Ridge of Everest (1963 Hornbein and Unsole) was generally considered the hardest rock climbing done at that altitude for several decades; although I don't believe anyone has repeated the rock buttress that Wiessner climbed on K2 in 1938.  

Isn't there some debate about whether "Flex Luthor" is actually a 5.15b? Or am I getting that confused with another Tommy route that has gone unrepeated. 

Justin Meserve wrote: Akira was proposed 5.15b when 5.15a wasn't established (Huber had done Open Air but called it 14d, it was pre-Biographie). People ridiculed Fred and asserted that either it wasn't that hard, or that he didn't do it at all. Folks have seen him link large portions and nobody has repeated it since..... very possibly legit.

Chilean Balam was proposed 5.15c before 5.15b was established (ignoring Akira), but nobody believed Bernabe actually did it, in part because he couldn't even identify who belayed him. Its since been repeated and checks in at soft 5.15b last I checked.

Open Air is more a case study in grade conversion antics and grief than of exemplary bounds.

I think some John Gaskins problems might get a nod to atleast V16 if anyone ever repeats them (but they were put up in the V15 era). Caldwell's 5.15a Flex Luthor has similarly turned away all challengers including some very worthy folks. 

Akira is one of the most fascinating stories in sport climbing history. I would highly recommend reading this article to understand more ( climbing.com/people/fred-ro…). You could choose to believe what you want to, but I personally believe he did indeed climb it and it is 9b. I think the lack of repeats is because no one wants to confirm the 9b grade and throw off the narrative that we know, with Biographie being the first 9a+ and Jumbo Love being the first 9b. 

As for Flex Luthor, it is very possible that it is harder than 9a+. Caldwell didn't give a grade when he climbed it, only saying it was significantly harder than Kryptonite (9a at the time). I asked Tommy about the route at presentation/poster signing at Neptune. He says that DWoods, Hong, Cardwell, and Traversi have all put in significant effort over the years and still none of them have sent. Hard to know for sure how much effort they truly put in, but it is very curious that it still lacks a repeat. 

Ethan Pringle suggested To Bolt or Not to Be is 14c

Jer wrote: Ethan Pringle suggested To Bolt or Not to Be is 14c

I find this hard to believe, do you have a link to this?