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"Best Parka" or Rab Photon X vs. FF Volant

Original Post
Arthur W · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2017 · Points: 5

Lend me your collective wisdom and regrets.
I'm looking for "a parka."  It'd be mostly used for mountaineering as an "over everything" layer on breaks and in camp.  I sometimes winter camp, will do more in the future.  "Typical" use is 0+ perhaps if I'm in a oh s*** while in the Whites in NH colder.  I have layers and know how to use them.  I'm going to Rainier in June...this would be nice/useful to have but it's not "for Rainier."  I do do some winter climbing and ice climbing, so it'd get some use as a "belay parka" but I don't foresee myself on big walls.  I'd say "cost is no object" because in this realm, well cared for stuff lasts a while.  Cost per use will be my judge and I plan to use it for a while.  My issue comes down to:  do I want to baby it and risk the slightly greater wear and benefit from a slightly lighter more compressible package (down)?  or the synthetic that's cheaper but still warm, arguably more versatile, still high quality, functional?

Never having touched either, I feel the Rab Photon X (synthetic) and the Feathered Friends Volant are the best representatives of the two categories.  Please comment!

AlpineIce · · Upstate, NY · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 255

There's a million threads on MP debating the pros/cons of synthetic insulation vs. down, but to highlight a few points:

1. Short-staple synthetic insulation like PrimaLoft Gold, which Rab uses in the Photon X, has very short longevity when exposed to frequent cycles of compression, ie: stuff sacks, packs, etc.  The insulation will pack down and lose its loft, diminishing it's ability to retain heat - clo value.

2. Down's fragility towards moisture can be life or death if the down becomes saturated and looses its ability to insulate, which it will if exposed to excessive moist body heat/weather.

3. Down is warmer for its weight vs. the same weight of synthetic insulation and down compresses much smaller and lofts much better when extracted from a stuff sack/pack.

4. If your down belay jacket sustains a rip or tear, you run the risk of spilling out numerous amounts of down clusters.  If your synthetic insulated belay jacket sustains damage, the batted insulation will most-likely retain its composition and not exit uncontrollably.

-If longevity and over-all warmth are your main priorities, and you have an understanding of how to care for down, then a down jacket will serve you well and last a long time.
-If you're rough on your gear, or you don't want the responsibility of caring for fragile down insulation, coupled with the understanding that synthetic insulation's longevity is questionable, at best, and you want a jacket that will insulate even when wet, then synthetic's the way to go. Even though you'd need a second mortgage, I recommend taking a look at the Arc'teryx Dually Belay Parka.

Anticipated temperatures, weather and anticipated compression cycles should be taken into consideration when making your decision.

Arthur W · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2017 · Points: 5

I understand your points and agree with everything that you’ve said. With those things in mind, with the way a mountaineering parka is typically used, which (down vs synth) is best?  

If I boil it down in my mind and experience, this type of garment isn’t typically “roughed up” much. I’m not crawling through chimneys or thickets in it. It’s ability to compress (given I’ll probably be packing other winter weight stuff) is likely to be very important.

This tips the scales towards down no?

AlpineIce · · Upstate, NY · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 255

I also live and climb in the northeast I primarily use a down belay jacket for several main reasons:

Here in the northeast, I'm rarely out overnight, which limits the moisture exposure to the down and allows the jacket to dry at night.  Secondly, I find down much warmer than any synthetic I've ever worn, and again, down just packs so much easier.  Due to our severe winters in the Adirondacks, Whites, my belay jacket currently, the box-baffled, Montane Deep Heat Jacket, has 300+ grams of 800-fill, hydrophobic goose down.  It's not the lightest belay jacket out there, but at 762 grams, it's definitely a contender.  It's my first full season with the Deep Heat and I like everything about it.  If I could change anything, I'd make the helmet-compatible hood a little deeper.

As long as you understand the consequences of down and how to mitigate downs short-comings, I'd say go with Feathered Friends if the Volant is the jacket you like.

Zack Robinson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2018 · Points: 0

Given your intended use, this is easy: go with down.

The only mountaineering scenario where I would lean toward synthetic is for multi-day winter technical routes in crappy conditions where you are pulling the parka out in between pitches and the down might wet out. Otherwise, down is warmer, lighter, more compressible and more durable.

If you care about longevity, avoid ultralight fabrics. If you care about weight the most, check out either the MH Phantom or Montbell Mirage. Both are crazy light foe their warmth, but they will be more prone to ripping and wear due to their UL fabrics.

Steven Roberts · · San Jose, CA · Joined Jan 2019 · Points: 0

Do you run cold?  The Volant is quite warm.  I recently got a Helios and debated on that being too warm for me, though I do run warm.  I have synthetic layers, but for me, I want a belay parka to be down without a doubt.  

Arthur W · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2017 · Points: 5

Thank you, very helpful info thus far.  The "community" tilts towards down for this purpose I just didn't want to totally overlook synthetic especially since there's some new/high tech stuff.  I wonder if the comparison is actually more similar to sleeping bags than to jackets.  In my mind I always thought synthetic was "more durable" (fibers don't "wear out" or get lost) than down but multiple people have mentioned the "durability" and "longevity" with good care.  I do care for my stuff quite well at home but while on the mountain I use my gear like the tools they are and don't baby them.

A few last Q's:  a box stitched jacket will be less compressible than an otherwise same sewn through jacket correct?  To a negligible degree I assume?
How much difference really is there between the numerous ~300g of fill of 800-900FP box sewn parkas (FF Volant, Rab Positron Pro, MH Nilas, ME K7, TNF Summit L6, Montane Deep Heat)?  Costs, fabrics, and features are all pretty similar.  Comes down to brand/colors/maybe sizing preferences?

I do generally run "cold."  

Christian Edstrom · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2019 · Points: 0

I would say the biggest difference outside of fit is the outside face fabric vs total weight.  I use a Rab Neutrino Endurance for my climbing in the Whites. It has the 30 denier Pertex Endurance outer fabric and while it isn’t super light it feels really tough for a belay parka.  Other than that, I agree.  

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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