Hard Shell jacket recommendations?

I know I know, there are plenty of write ups on hard shell jackets, I've read quite a few of them. So although this is probably a repeat, I'm sure some gear nerds may still have some insight, regardless of redundancy.

The last shell I bought was back in 2005 and I quite literally fell asleep next to a fire camping, and burnt a hole through it (damn whiskey). So, I need a shell that is an all around I'm guessing. I do extensive camping/hiking during the summer in the smoky mountains and southeast (every weekend) with a ski trip or 2 out west in the winter. I sport climb outdoors all of the time but I never need a shell for that. I plan on tackling some 14-ers this summer and the tetons, and will be doing some alpine hiking as well across the country, so if not for anything else it would be good to have for these objectives. Also, it rains like f#*king crazy here in TN and I don't have a shell at all anymore.

What are your recommendations for some hard shells?
 
Ive been out of the shell market for over 10 years, and based on a preliminary search, seems like Arcteryx line comes up time and time again as the top rated brand for hard shells ($$$). I have a RAB down jacket that I'm obsessed and I can only imagine their shells are equally as badass.  I'm okay with forking over a chunk of money if its going to last me over a decade again. Not looking for a 700$ jacket but something in the 350 ish range is worth it to me. Let me here your thoughts!

The Alpha FL is always a good choice.  I love mine and wouldn't hesitate to get another.  The only downside some people have is there are no hand pockets.  

Personally the deadbird fit is what really makes it stand out among all the other shells out there.  But truthfully anything with Goretex Pro will be bomber enough protect/durability wise so shop around.

I just asked the same thing.......haha.........

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/116579328/your-favorite-hard-shells-ski-touring-oriented

jt newgard wrote: I just asked the same thing.......haha.........

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/116579328/your-favorite-hard-shells-ski-touring-oriented

haha awesome! Great minds think a like. Sometimes its a pain in the ass to dig through forums, its like...Ill just ask again

Matt S. wrote: The Alpha FL is always a good choice.  I love mine and wouldn't hesitate to get another.  The only downside some people have is there are no hand pockets.  

Personally the deadbird fit is what really makes it stand out among all the other shells out there.  But truthfully anything with Goretex Pro will be bomber enough protect/durability wise so shop around.

Do you have any preference for the Alpha FL vs AR? What about the beta line?

Outdoor Research Interstellar is pretty awesome! It’s served me well in all pursuits the last year. 

Cameron Cunningham wrote:

Do you have any preference for the Alpha FL vs AR? What about the beta line?

No experience with the beta line.  But I went with the FL because it's cheaper and has less zippers (places that would probably fail first).  But ymmv!  I'm sure it's an awesome jacket!

I have the Rab Latok Alpine (eVent). It's really nice, except the main zipper really really sucks. It seems to stop working well after about 10 days of use, and eventually stops working completely. They've fixed it for me twice (once a new jacket, once with a new zipper pull), and I have to decide now whether to send it back a third time or just throw it away. Don't get me wrong -- those guys stand behind the product for sure, but I'm getting pretty tired of this. Just get the Arcteryx.

The REI Drypoint GTX weighs 10 ounces and is a 3-layer Goretex active jacket.  I would take it out in a summer rain, and I plan to take it to Denali this summer.  It's also considerably cheaper than anything Arc'teryx: https://www.rei.com/product/125348/rei-co-op-drypoint-gtx-jacket-mens

Honestly, I think people buy way more jacket than they need when it comes to hardshells.  For a do-it-all jacket like what you are wanting, weight and packability really matter.  I have a bigger, burlier hardshell (OR Furio), and I pretty much only use it when skiing at resorts.  If I'm taking a pack of some sort and doing a human-powered activity, I take the Drypoint.

I have an Arc’teryx Beta AR and an Alpha FL. Both are great jackets with pretty different purposes. Hopefully I can offer some insight into the differences between the jackets themselves, and the lines as a whole.

I got the Beta AR first as an “everything jacket”: walking around town, skiing, hiking, climbing, etc. The Beta line is to be designed to be versatile, and as has been my experience. It has some good comfort features like the double hand pockets, very durable material, and collared hood. However, the same features that make it good for walking around town, hiking and skiing make it less than ideal for climbing. Primarily, the fit is much more relaxed than the Alpha line; the shoulders aren’t cut with a lot of overhead movements in mind and there is a significant amount of extra fabric in the chest. Also, the hood/collar is very comfortable without a helmet on, but offers much less protection than a more specialized “storm hood”. Similarly, the jacket itself is pretty bulky and stiff, both while wearing and while trying to pack. I think the Beta AR is also Arc’s most popular jacket, and it’s almost always on sale somewhere or for cheap on eBay.
These drawbacks led me to the Alpha FL. The cut of the Alpha line is perfect for me (moderate build). In general, the Alpha line is geared towards climbing. The features seem ideal for this; I don’t mind the lack of pockets while climbing, and the material is noticeably lighter and more supple. Personally, I enjoy the simpicity of the fit and features, but the jacket is also less “livable” for long stretches of rain (ie. days). Overall, the FL is more specialized, but far better for its intended use. I still use my Beta AR for skiing (both resort and backcountry), and for around town, but I find myself grabbing my FL more and more often. 

Give me a shout if you have any other questions about specifics :)

I grew up in Western NC, so very similar area to you Cameron, and have spent a lot of time in the mountains there. I live in Colorado now, but I have been back there with my current gear as my dad still lives in the area.

My primary hardshell is the Alpha AR. It's not quite as trim as the FL and obviously has the extra chest pocket. Personally, the addition of pit zips on the AR vs the FL is something I'm not sure I could give up, and my vents are usually fully open if I'm working uphill unless it's absolutely pouring. Venting usually trumps breath-ability to me, although admittedly I've never gotten to try a really breathable fabric in the humidity of the SE.

I wore the AR on a December ascent of Mt. Mitchell via the Buncombe Horse Trail to Big Tom Spur route (just over 17 miles rtd and almost 3600' of up!) in mid 30's with plenty of mist of some light rain, and I don't think the shell was ever even stretched. I stayed warm and dry the whole time over just two layers of Capilene.

It's been great for my winter activities here in CO as well. It's tackled 13ers/14ers, long snow shoe slogs, and ice climbing with me and has never given me a single problem.

The gore pro seems really good, and I really appreciate the weight of the face fabric on the jacket. 40D in most places with some 70D in key areas. You probably don't need the reinforcement, but I feel like the minimum of what I want in a do-it-all shell that you're going to be using very frequently. In particular, some of the thinner fabrics would make me nervous around the branches on conifers. It should hold up well in the long term, and is also thick enough to really batten down the hatches for bad weather while not being too heavy/bulky to keep in the pack if you get lucky.

Zack Robinson wrote:Honestly, I think people buy way more jacket than they need when it comes to hardshells.  For a do-it-all jacket like what you are wanting, weight and packability really matter.

Couldn't be more true. 

I had an Alpha AR and the thing was a bombproof high Alpine war machine. Absolute work of art. But one day I finally bought an Outdoor Research helium hybrid because I was tired of how bulky it was.

I ended up selling the dead bird and got the interstellar from OR. It has vastly better breathability and pack size. I am happy to take it on every outing. I'm happy I switched even though it's a "downgrade" of a couple hundred dollars. The interstellar might not hold up to as many alpine chimneys, but so far it's been more than enough for 50+ mph winds blowing snow at -5°f. Definitely can handle more than I can haha

I bought the Alpha FL several years ago. Wouldnt hesitate in buying another. Only downside as mentioned earlier is the lack of hand pockets. Not a problem for me when climbing, but for backpacking it can be annoying when its cold and windy. But then i just pack better gloves... 

Cameron Cunningham wrote:

Do you have any preference for the Alpha FL vs AR? What about the beta line?

For 8 years now, I've owned an Alpha AR and it's a great a durable piece. I primarily use it for ice climbing and found it is a go-to outer layer even when the conditions are not really bad. I don't wear too much under it typically and I don't find myself getting hot or clammy in it. I also use on rainy days out and about since I figure it's best to get use out of such a pricey jacket. It's stood up well. The bottom of the jacket fits a little slim I feel, but don't have a comparison for you. I'm very happy with it and know that I won't need a new shell for many years.

You should try and wait for The North Face Summit Series L5 Shell Jacket with "FUTURELIGHT" nanospinning technology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBuYpS92ChA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ByAkTjB81A

TNF Futurelight advanced waterproof technology is:
- 100% Waterproof
- Extremely breathable (eg. 2x more breathable than best competitor membrane technology on market today which is currently Polartec Neoshell and eVent)
- Integrated 4 way stretch for good freedom of movement
- Extremely Soft (eg. not crinkly like GoreTex Pro)
- Very Light and extremely thin and thus very packable
- Tested on top of Everest and Lhotse with 100 continuous days tested by athletes with 0 defects and passed all TNF abrasion resistance and pile testing (The Summit Series L5 Shell jacket uses 70D nylon outerface
- New c0super DWR chemistry PFC/Fluorene free and 4x more durable than standard DWR which means it maintains 80% of water repellency after 80 wash cycles
- Uses 100% recycled polyester

This looks like the next game changer in waterproof breathable outerwear, and hopefully puts pressure on the Gore monopoly to reduce prices on their now inferior Goretex outerwear products.

***
BUT, if you need something NOW, since there are good past season color deals, get the Arc’teryx Beta LT because:

- highly versatile and functional for climbing, hiking, camping, rainy urban days, skiing
- it is relatively as light as the Alpha FL yet has 2 big side pockets and small interior pocket
- it is just as durable since it uses the same Gore-Tex Pro 40D face fabric as the Alpha FL
- it has Arc’teryx well known best fit in the business (you can tell just by trying on the current TNF Summit L5 and then the Beta LT or Alpha FL of the same size, and Arc’teryx fit is far superior in comfort and movement)
- great warranty
- well within your $350 budget especially for past season colors on sale
***

I just bought the Alpha FL this winter and have been using it a lot. The fit is nice and slim.  I've been using it for snowshoeing and snowboarding but really got it for summer hikes and alpine multiptich afternoon storms.  It perfect for climbing.  Though I haven't had a chance to use it for that yet.. 

I also tried on the alpha sv alpha ar and the beta ar.   If ur not going to be wearing a harness mostly and like pockets get the beta ar.  If your going to be putting a lot of layers under it and want to use a harness get the alpha ar.   If your concerned about weight, using a harness, not to many layers,  get the alpha fl

The alpha ar and sv has a very very relaxed fit for lots of layers. They would flap in the win a lot if you only have a baselayer and thin insulation layer under them

I have an older gortex pro snowboarding jacket which is awesome but the breathability on it is trash.  I still use it for its pockets snowboarding  My new alpha fl breathes a lot. Not sure if the heavier 80 weight on the alpha sv or ar breathes as good.  I can feel wind through the fl.  Hiking uphill in -5c I still don't wear it though.  better off using more breathable fleece if weather permits

Another thing to note is the cut on the fl front is very short. And some of my mid layers poke out the front which is annoying. It's cut like that for a harness though

John B wrote:I also tried on the alpha sv alpha ar and the beta ar.   If ur not going to be wearing a harness mostly and like pockets get the beta ar.  If your going to be putting a lot of layers under it and want to use a harness get the alpha ar.   If your concerned about weight, using a harness, not to many layers,  get the alpha fl

The alpha ar and sv has a very very relaxed fit for lots of layers. They would flap in the win a lot if you only have a baselayer and thin insulation layer under them

I have an older gortex pro snowboarding jacket which is awesome but the breathability on it is trash.  I still use it for its pockets snowboarding  My new alpha fl breathes a lot. Not sure if the heavier 80 weight on the alpha sv or ar breathes as good.  I can feel wind through the fl.  Hiking uphill in -5c I still don't wear it though.  better off using more breathable fleece if weather permits

Another thing to note is the cut on the fl front is very short. And some of my mid layers poke out the front which is annoying. It's cut like that for a harness though

True the Alpha SV is heavy due to the 100D face fabric and has a more regular and longer fit meant to accommodate extra layers

However, the Alpha AR is almost as trim fit as the Alpha FL of the same size in my experience as almost the same length. 

Regarding the front cut of the Alpha FL, are your mid layers that you find longer from Arc’teryx? I find Arc’teryx mid layers such as the Proton LT/AR, Atom SL/LT and Cerium SL/LT series fit perfectly under the same size Alpha FL on not poking out the front!!!

black diamond liquid point shell.  i have a $700 arcteryx shell and i find myself in the BD more often.

Caleb Schwarz wrote:

Couldn't be more true. 

I had an Alpha AR and the thing was a bombproof high Alpine war machine. Absolute work of art. But one day I finally bought an Outdoor Research helium hybrid because I was tired of how bulky it was.

I ended up selling the dead bird and got the interstellar from OR. It has vastly better breathability and pack size. I am happy to take it on every outing. I'm happy I switched even though it's a "downgrade" of a couple hundred dollars. The interstellar might not hold up to as many alpine chimneys, but so far it's been more than enough for 50+ mph winds blowing snow at -5°f. Definitely can handle more than I can haha

Caleb, any cons or nitpicks with the Interstellar? I've been eyeing it for a while. I've got the AR for bulletproof and a LA Sportiva Hail for ultralight and it seems like the Interstellar would slot nicely in between, not sure if I need something else. 

Also worth mentioning that I almost certainly wouldn't have bought the 'dead bird' at MSRP.

jt newgard wrote: I just asked the same thing.......haha.........

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/116579328/your-favorite-hard-shells-ski-touring-oriented

Well I have two hard shells the RAB for skiing and the BD Sharp End Shell for climbing. I can highly recommend the BD as a non-skiing shell, the hood is the best I ever used. But for skiing it won't work because it won't fit over my ski helmet, and it also doesn't have a powder collar.

Lucas deHart wrote:

Caleb, any cons or nitpicks with the Interstellar? I've been eyeing it for a while. I've got the AR for bulletproof and a LA Sportiva Hail for ultralight and it seems like the Interstellar would slot nicely in between, not sure if I need something else. 

Also worth mentioning that I almost certainly wouldn't have bought the 'dead bird' at MSRP.

I've never been a huge fan of wire brims on hardshells. That being said the one on the interstellar is very low profile and minimal. It doesn't have pit zips, but it's really breathable and the zips would make it heavier and bulkier. Just like every other helmet compatible hood, it's a bit bulky without a helmet on. Easily fixed with the adjustments and a ball cap.

It has a single hem adjustment at your back right hip that's incredibly easy to pull backwards at an angle and cinches perfectly. Really impressive. It also has awesome low profile Velcro wrist adjustments

Lol I also didn't pay MSRP for the dead bird.