Edelrid Spoc Vs. Petzl Micro Trax

I have both.  I haven't used the Spoc for TR soloing, but it seems less robust than the Microtraxion and therefore less suitable for TR soloing.  IMO, the Spoc would really only be preferred for emergency only use, when you want to save a few grams.  

I recently purchased the Spoc to try against my MicroTraxion. I use my MicroT for 90% TR soloing, 9% doing light hauls, and 1% other stuff (tyroleans, simul-climbing, etc). I've had a chance to use the Spoc a bit for TR soloing and light hauling. The following are my thoughts (keep in mind I have a tiny fraction of the mileage on the Spoc as I do on the MicroT):

Things I like...

1) The Spoc is noticeably lighter and smaller.
2) The build quality is excellent and I disagree with Karl above - think it is as robust as the MicroT.
3) The "tunnel" through which the rope passes (formed by the metal side plates and the sheave) is about 1mm larger than on the MicroT. Also, the channel of the sheave is not as deep as that of the MicroT. I believe these features explain why I experience a noticeable difference in how easily a rope will slide through the device as compared to the MicroT. For rope soloing, this means less weight on the rope/the rope will start feeding sooner and more smoothly. I have not tested it on really fat ropes (approaching 11mm) or really skinny ropes (6-7mm tags) yet, but I suspect it will perform as well as or better than the MicroT.
4) The string used for cam retraction and lockout feels more secure than the button on the MicroT. I think it is less likely to accidentally release when locked in the open position and less likely to accidentally engage when the cam is in the active position.

Things I dislike...

1) The cam is much smaller and narrower than that of the MicroT. I worry about this concentrating even more force on a rope over a smaller footprint and possibly causing increased wear and tear/damage.
2) The string used for cam retraction and lockout is definitely more fiddly than the button on the MicroT and I think it could wear out (though it's probably easily replaceable).
3) Retraction of the cam manually is a little more difficult on the Spoc: You have to either use the string to pull it open or manually pull it back from the end of the cam. The latter, however, is not quite as easy as doing so with the MicroT which actually has engineered ridges and a larger surface area at the end of the cam to provide grip for retraction.

In conclusion, I haven't reached a verdict yet because I need to put more miles on it. But my suspicion is the Spoc will probably replace the MicroT for my uses primarily because it is noticeably lighter and less draggy on the rope feed. That is worth the tradeoff in ease of use. For TR soloing, the MicroT/Spoc is my backup device - not my primary - for that reason I worry less about the much smaller footprint of the cam on the Spoc. If these devices were my primary device, I would use the MicroT.

BTW, Max, if you haven't used the Kong Frog for protecting simul-climbing, you should check it out - no worries taking a lead fall with it on the rope IMO.

Anonymous wrote:

What's your primary and have you tried the Roll N Lock? 

Primary = Croll. I attach it with this amazing super light aluminum Mallion Rapide I found - I’ve never seen another! I attach my backup with a DMM Ultra O Kwiklock - never seen it cross load and even if it does it is strong enough in the minor axis to handle it. I’m curious about the PerfectO but have never seen one in person.

I’ve played with the Roll-n-Lock in the shop but felt it was unnecessarily heavy & complex and wasn’t any smoother feeding than the Frog or MicroT.

Josh Janes wrote:

Primary = Croll. I attach it with this amazing super light aluminum Mallion Rapide I found - I’ve never seen another! I attach my backup with a DMM Ultra O Kwiklock - never seen it cross load and even if it does it is strong enough in the minor axis to handle it. I’m curious about the PerfectO but have never seen one in person.

I’ve played with the Roll-n-Lock in the shop but felt it was unnecessarily heavy & complex and wasn’t any smoother feeding than the Frog or MicroT.

Roll n lock (80 grams) weight is similar to the MicroT (85 grams). Operation and performance is fairly similar; I don't think the RnL is any more complex than the MicroT. The main reason I have a RnL is that is was way cheaper than buying a second MicroT. I use them pretty interchangeably, though I've found that I prefer the RnL as primary and the MicroT as secondary. The reason is that the RnL cam is a bit easier to disengage manually, so if I want to bump back down the rope to retry a move, it is a bit easier to let a foot of slack out on the RnL. Whereas the Micro is such a positive, reliable lock on the rope, it is a very reassuring backup, but sometimes a bit annoying as a primary if you need to disengage it from a slightly tensioned rope.

For hauling, though, the MicroT is significantly superior to the RollnLock. With the RollnLock you lose an inch or two of progress with each pull, as the cam rolls to engage.

How do you like the Croll? I got one recently and have been experimenting with it for TR solo. I like the fact that you can switch between TR soloing and an efficient "frog" jugging setup very easily. Also like the super fast on/off the rope. And the ease of attaching it to the neck loop or chest harness. But, still not sure I love it for normal TR solo. The teeth are even more aggresive than the Microtrax, so it does seem to pick at the sheath a bit it you need to disengage the cam. Also, in situations where the rope runs at a funny angle (going around a roof, for instance), it sometimes looks like the rope could pop out of the ascender. Generally just feels a bit less sercurely on the rope compared to something like a microtrax.  Thoughts/experience with this?

Josh Janes wrote:

Primary = Croll. I attach it with this amazing super light aluminum Mallion Rapide I found - I’ve never seen another! I attach my backup with a DMM Ultra O Kwiklock - never seen it cross load and even if it does it is strong enough in the minor axis to handle it. I’m curious about the PerfectO but have never seen one in person.

I’ve played with the Roll-n-Lock in the shop but felt it was unnecessarily heavy & complex and wasn’t any smoother feeding than the Frog or MicroT.

Aluminium maillons are made by Peguet, they call the material Zicral.

Anonymous wrote: What chest harness are you using with it?

Something pretty similar to a Petzl Torse. The Torse is a great design, but is a bit overbuilt for my needs (thicker webbing, bulky buckle). So I have a lighter and less bulky homemade imitation with thin spectra webbing. It basically functions like a pair of suspenders. I like it. Does not interfere with movement like most chest harnesses, but also doesn't pull on your neck like the simple shock cord neck loop. Quite comfortable.

JCM wrote:
How do you like the Croll? ...Also like the super fast on/off the rope. And the ease of attaching it to the neck loop... Also, in situations where the rope runs at a funny angle (going around a roof, for instance), it sometimes looks like the rope could pop out of the ascender. Generally just feels a bit less sercurely on the rope compared to something like a microtrax.  Thoughts/experience with this?

This. Easy on/off is what I want. Perhaps not everyone wants that but I do - I move up and down the rope too much on various projects and don't want to have to mess with it. I agree that the rope could pop out of it - especially when pulling at weird angles... but that's why I run a super secure backup. That said, I've TR rope soloed pretty much anything I can imagine (crazy big roofs and traverses) and have never had it pop off the rope.

Anonymous wrote:
What chest harness are you using with it?

I'm not. I use a loop of cotton bungee cord which feels nice against my neck. Found it by the spool at an REI.

A little update on the Spoc:

Yesterday I was TR rope soloing and noticed that the cam retraction cord had somehow been pulled and had slid into the locked position. There was some tension on the cam, although not enough to retract it, so it wasn't a big deal but it did get me thinking (and I'll have to revise "things I like #4" above).

I've heard of people having the cam on a MicroTraxion disengage while rope soloing and move into the locked-out position. People have even filed off the lockout button tab on the MicroTraxion to prevent this. I've never experienced it and it still seems really unlikely to me - but now I can imagine it happening with the Spoc. In much the same way those people have filed off the button, I may remove the retraction cord from the Spoc (easily done by simply untying a knot) to prevent this from ever happening.

I have been using the Spoc for TR soloing (with out another device) and overall it works fine and gets the job done. Josh's point about the tooth cam becoming disengaged while climbing is a valid concern, which one can combat by tying knots in the rope as they climb up. One thing I have noticed with the spoc (which perhaps is the device's biggest pitfall) is that because the clip in point is really big, it is easy for the spoc to move around on its biner, potentially going into a cross loading position.

The Spoc is dangerous, go with the microtrax.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118769761/edelrid-spoc-safety-warning

Anson __ wrote: The Spoc is dangerous, go with the microtrax.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118769761/edelrid-spoc-safety-warning

Not the full story, the failure mode Anson experienced is also possible with a micro-traxion. If you want the details follow the link and read some responses, it's actually quite informative.

Anson __ wrote: The Spoc is dangerous, go with the microtrax.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118769761/edelrid-spoc-safety-warning

The spoc itself isn’t dangerous, human error is...

+1 The spoc itself isn’t dangerous, human error is...

Read the "spoc safety warning" post with a critical eye. The gentleman says he was "using the spoc as it's supposed to be" but then shows he had the carabiner cross-loaded and the screw-lock jammed inside the device.

Caleb Esmay wrote:

The spoc itself isn’t dangerous, human error is...

The spoc is more likely to fail than the micro Trax because it had a bigger holes, and what do you suggest besides using a chest harness to avoid this so-called user error? 

It's more dangerous, simple as that. Pick something else

coppolillo wrote: +1 The spoc itself isn’t dangerous, human error is...

Read the "spoc safety warning" post with a critical eye. The gentleman says he was "using the spoc as it's supposed to be" but then shows he had the carabiner cross-loaded and the screw-lock jammed inside the device.

The fact that this can happen even when precautions are taken to avoid it is exactly and obviously the problem.

Anson __ wrote: The Spoc is dangerous, go with the microtrax.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118769761/edelrid-spoc-safety-warning

The spoc is not dangerous, you are dangerous. 

Anson __ wrote:

The spoc is more likely to fail than the micro Trax because it had a bigger holes, and what do you suggest besides using a chest harness to avoid this so-called user error? 

It's more dangerous, simple as that. Pick something else

Non cross loading carabiner, locker that isn’t a screw lock. I could see a similar issue arising with the micro. I just feel like it’s a bad habit to blame the gear when there were ways to mitigate the accident. 

c es wrote:

Non cross loading carabiner, locker that isn’t a screw lock. I could see a similar issue arising with the micro. I just feel like it’s a bad habit to blame the gear when there were ways to mitigate the accident. 

If you can't safely use a screwlock, then Edelrid should say so. But they explicitly say that you can. And an anti-crossloading carabineer wouldn't necessarily fix this, it could still jam on the screwgate or just sideways on the crab. And if you have to do more than a chest harness with this device and not others then that is a dangerous design flaw and I stand by what I said: there are safer alternatives.

All of which was covered in the prior posts on the topic. Maybe read them before smearing people. 

Is the new industry standard to just wait for Petzl to make innovative new gear then just RIP off the design? But oh look we cut some extra holes in our cheap knockoff to make it 25grams lighter? Less than an once.... sorry I'll keep buying Petzl so they can keep funding r&d to make cool new stuff. The reason this is less expensive is its cheap junk knockoff crap just like all the imitation grigri garbage on the market. Is your safety worth only $25 dollars to you? Is giving up piece of mind worth shaving 25grams of weight off.

Anson __ wrote:

If you can't safely use a screwlock, then Edelrid should say so. But they explicitly say that you can. And an anti-crossloading carabineer wouldn't necessarily fix this, it could still jam on the screwgate or just sideways on the crab. And if you have to do more than a chest harness with this device and not others then that is a dangerous design flaw and I stand by what I said: there are safer alternatives.

All of which was covered in the prior posts on the topic. Maybe read them before smearing people. 

How long ya been climbing kiddo?