Another "next shoe please" request for a beginner moving into intermediate

Eli W wrote:

Or just buy comfortable shoes and not have to take them off constantly.

No, or at least not exactly, in my experience.

I have found that it depends greatly on how much your feet sweat. People that don't have sweaty feet can size them comfortably and (if they have a good initial fit) get quite good (but not great) performance that way and retain it for much of the life of the shoe.

The moisture from sweaty feet like mine will accelerate stretching of the shoe and if I size comfy at the start will never get truly great performance and then have them stretch to floppy sheit in time.

I downsize quite a bit but and with eventual stretch find I get at least a decent window of glove like fit that you can't get any other way as no one makes any shoe to mold to your feet like a pair that has stretched to fit you and you alone. The performance is unparalleled. 

There is a reason most top climbers downsize a lot and especially for superior edging performance.

@OP I was struck in an interview with Steve McClure (sp) and another top brit pro both sponsored by La Sportiva that felt their one go to shoe to climb anything was the Skwama. It fits wide and will stretch too. They might choose another shoe for a specific problem but felt it was the best all around shoe made by La Sportiva for hard sport and bouldering.

Auden Alsop wrote:

I bought into the Skwama hype too, even after having people tell me that it would fold on them when edging and on slabs. My conclusion after 4 or 5 bouldering sessions is that they are emphatically the shit. The edge and climb slab as well as any slipper, and probably better with the support the offer, plus they climb on steep and mildly overhung stuff sooooo well. They were really sensitive out of the box, the rubber is super sticky, easy to just pop the heel off to rest your feet when you aren’t climbing, the strap makes them easy to adjust... they’re pretty freaking awesome. I used to be an Evolv guy too, but the Skwamas fit my wide and short feet perfectly.

The only complaint I ever hear about the Skwamas is that eventually those with sweaty feet complain about them getting floppy. This is inevitable with an unlined leather slipper.

Its that window of performance though that is just unbelievably good. Keep in mind that many will have their go to send pair that is just broken in to perfection, with another that has gone a little sloppy to train in, work a route or do laps etc saving the ones that are perfect for when they need their sendy best. Keeping them in reserve to preserve that ideal fit.

Honnold and Ondra and others seem to prefer Solutions for hard sport sends. It fits more narrow at the toes so my (guess) is that it fits them better. They don't fit my Roman foot as well.

Dude, i climb exactly your range. I dont have wide feet, but i would say the katanas are/have been perfect for what you may be looking for. I say this too because if youre going to be at the gunks, these bad girls  work  very well there.  For me, they transition well between the gym and real rock, specifically los gunks.. The sock like liner is awesome; if you size them right yo dont really have to tie them for gym play but they stay snug. They  break in real nice and are dang comfy even though i personally size mine slightly snug. Cons would be that They are a tad pricy and for me the heel isn't 100%snug, maybe 96% (why buy a shoe based on its heel hook ability though... over rated). These shoes are definitely all around wonders    

One thing people don’t tend to mention about shoes is the distinction between a down cambered last (whole shoe sold looks like a banana viewed from the side) and aggressively “knuckled” toe box.

You can have a flat lasted shoe with a higher volume toe box in a very aggressive knuckled fit. It’s uncomfortable as all hell, but it edges.

Conversely you can have a down CAMBERED shoe, with a lower profile toe box. This last lightly curls the toes down unweighted, but it does not put an aggressive kink in the big toes knuckle. These will give you edging performance with the shoes midsole bowing flat on edge, they can be made with a less rigid midsole for smearing. They’re actually far more versatile than flat lasted shoes.
Examples, katana lace, kataki, vapor, instinct

Then you’ve got your down cambered shoe with a knuckled up toe box. These can give you incredible edging power, but More important now soles are curved up under the big toe really giving that downward point that lets you toe in and pull your hip into the wall on steeps or to the side on high rock overs. The comfort obviously suffers, but the degree of “knuckle” and sizing make that vary greatly. 
Testarossa, solutions, skwama, otaki, mago, chimera, booster, etc all fall in here.

I’d opt for a downcambered shoe with a lower profile non knuckled fit. Get a fit with no dead space, no need to go extremely tight, but you shouldn’t be able to push the heel in much if any.

If you plan to climb on rock much remember the gym holds are bigger than the state of Montana in relation to what you use on rock. Get the softest and least supportive shoe you can use. It will strengthen your feet and you’ll be able to use softer shoes with more sensitivity out on rock.

Scarpa Instinct vs

Nick Drake wrote: One thing people don’t tend to mention about shoes is the distinction between a down cambered last (whole shoe sold looks like a banana viewed from the side) and aggressively “knuckled” toe box.
..........

This is a great point and explanation!! dang. 

Julian H wrote: Miura, skwama, maverik, kataki, otaki, solutions, and futura are all builded on the same shoe last. What La Sportiva calls pd75. So they should fit the same But because the build and the way they stretch the rubber and how much rubber is on the shoe they feel different.

The PD numbers refer to the asymmetry of the last, how it looks viewed from above. The actual volume of the lasts in toe box and forefoot are different between those models, it's not just the construction that makes them seem different.  

Julian H wrote:

Interesting.  What does PD75 mean? In this graph it refers to the last name not asymmetry.  Miura and otaki look like they have been builded on different lasts. https://www.sportiva.com/media/wysiwyg/Product_Charts/ClimbingComparisonChart2017_lowres_Page_2.jpg

You know now based on that chart, damn good question! This is what was explained to me by a sportiva rep when I asked why Miura VS and otaki felt so different. That chart makes even less sense to me though, because I felt like the otaki was higher volume than the miura. 

Nick Drake wrote:

You know now based on that chart, damn good question! This is what was explained to me by a sportiva rep when I asked why Miura VS and otaki felt so different. That chart makes even less sense to me though, because I felt like the otaki was higher volume than the miura. 

The same last can be built into shoes of varying widths and to accommodate feet of different volumes. Without question Miura/Solution are more narrow than Skwama.

Somewhere on the La Sportiva site is a chart showing the various widths and volumes the shoes are intended for in relation to each other. Look up the La Sportiva sizing guide.

ps. like this: