your favorite hard shells -- ski touring oriented

What's up climbers

Surely some of you are skiers too.

This past weekend I realized my shell layers are sorely lacking. Was skinning uphill on a relatively warm day with a constant deluge of wet precip. (think mixture of rain/sleet/hail) coming down. Then when I got above the trees a hard cold wind blasted the ridge. Yikes!

Thankfully I'm an expert navigator and had a nice ski back to the trailhead, but it sucked to cut the day short.

So, what are your favorite shells for these difficult wet conditions. Any tricks for staying dry? I mention ski touring specifically, because it seems like a worst case scenario. You're burning cardio bigtime on the uphill -- and a hard, not breathable shell tends to result in sweatiness. Too breathable and you have what I experienced -- a slow creeping wetness until you're completely soaked!

IME working hard, wearing a big pack, with wet precip coming down is going to get you quite moist no matter what you're wearing.

Westcomb Apoc

Situations like that, I wear my OR Interstellar over a baselayer.  But like Gunkiemike says, not really any winning in that situation!

Thanks for replies so far.

Gunkiemike....are you suggesting I should NOT go out when it's storming like mad???? Come on!!!!

After doing some research this morning, I realized affordability may be an issue as well. Sadly I cannot ethically/responsibly drop $1000+ on nice jacket and pants.

Perhaps the army surplus store is the answer. Wear extremely heavy bombproof, tarplike attire for the ascent, sweat like crazy, then when it's time to drop in, strip completely down and put on dry layers safely stored in the pack. 

I have a BD Helio Active shell that I like. Been using it all season and even during a rainy day yesterday I was totally dry. Giant pit zips are great for venting.

Those conditions are very difficult to dress for and stay dry when ski touring.  It's precipitating hard so you'll get soaked if you don't wear a shell, but you're generating so much heat that it's tough not to overheat with the Gore Tex on.  If it's snowing hard and near freezing I find it better to wear a hard shell on the uphill and avoid getting soaked from the precip.  If it's snowing lightly and colder then you can probably get away without the shell completely or wear something like a wind shirt or soft shell on the up.  

For storm days when it's actively precipitating, I wear the absolute thinnest base layer I can under my shell to try to prevent overheating.  I use a Patagonia lightweight long sleeve capilene top.  The shell goes over that.  Add synthetic layers for the down at the transition.  I'll even wear a T shirt under the shell if needed to stay dry on the uphill.  That lightweight base layer dries quickly.  

I've been really, really liking the BD Helio Active Shell for ski touring.  Best shell I've ever had for ski touring.  It's lightweight, packable, and its has pit zips which is huge for those warmer storm days.  The Gore Active fabric breathes well but pit zips are still a must for hiking uphill with the shell on.  I don't always pack a hard shell for touring (I'll forego the hard shell on blue bird spring days), but when I do it's this one.  

OR Interstellar is about as breathable as it gets in a hardshell. That being said... I haven't done a ton of ski touring, but I have been running for years, and there is no hardshell in the world with enough breathability to vent the heat and sweat generated at a moderate running pace. My limited ski touring experience tells me that a moderate uphill skin is more work than a moderate run.

Edit: Interstellar has no pit zips, maybe not a good choice based on the more experienced ski tourers' posts above me.

Gunkiemike wrote: IME working hard, wearing a big pack, with wet precip coming down is going to get you quite moist no matter what you're wearing.

Not in my Ortovox Guardian/La Grave setups! Best hardshells I have ever had. They have a brushed wool interior and are incredibly breathable. Even if you get damp they feel dry because of the wool. The temperature range is incredible as well. I have some Gore-Pro jackets/pants that just blow compared to the Derzimax material used in Orto gear. Can't reccomend that fabric enough. STELLAR

I find that doing a complete Nik Wax wash of my Gore-Tex keeps it performing well.  After last year I thought my 10 year old OR Furio was set for retirement, but after looking up the cost of a new jacket I decided to buy all the tech wash I could and give that a shot.  This is what I found did the trick for revitalizing my jacket (and it kept me dry and warm the next week as it was nuking in Tahoe):

First Wash:  Tech Wash
Second Wash: TX.Direct Wash-In
Dry on Medium-High
Spray-On: TX.Direct Spray-On

Jacket is still acting like flexible armor in wet conditions and has yet to wet through (a problem I had last year).  If you haven't already washed and re-conditioned your gear I would suggest that step prior to dropping money on new gear (either expensive stuff or army surplus).  

For what it is worth, the Outdoor Research Furio series has excellent venting properties.  I have the jacket and the pants.  Full length venting zippers on both items.  I've had the jacket for over 10 years and the pants for ~8 and after the treatment I gave them this winter I expect to keep using them for at least that long.  

The best I can suggest is that you adjust your compromise on waterproof/breathable to something like eVent or Goretex Active and adjust your pace to prevent sweating.  It's hard but it's an efficient way to cover a lot of distance in the mountains and it will keep you comfortable.  The other option if you're running so warm that you'll soak yourself inside your waterproof layer is to just go without and embrace the suck.  You'll be wet and cool but you won't be soaked through a bunch of layers, only a thin base layer that will mostly dry out if you layer up as soon as you stop.

Quick transitions mean you stay warm and ski more. Getting wet is unavoidable.

Polartec neoshell breathes pretty amazing, but if you’re working hard your going to get wet, even in running shorts and a tee shirt. The beauty of a hardshell like goretex pro is it cuts the wind out so you don’t get quite the evaporative chilling you get with something more breathable. 

I pretty much opt for a well treated soft shell unless it's pretty much rain all the way to the top (in which case I go to the climbing gym and hope the storm finishes cold). However, I've been out in some sleet/heavy wet snow with the OR Skyward II and didn't get wet. I still got pretty warm/sweaty but not like I would if I was wearing my goretex rain jacket. The jacket has full pit zips which helps dump moisture buildup and uses ascent shell which is pretty breathable so it could work for you.  

jt newgard wrote: Thanks for replies so far.

Gunkiemike....are you suggesting I should NOT go out when it's storming like mad???? Come on!!!!

After doing some research this morning, I realized affordability may be an issue as well. Sadly I cannot ethically/responsibly drop $1000+ on nice jacket and pants.

Perhaps the army surplus store is the answer. Wear extremely heavy bombproof, tarplike attire for the ascent, sweat like crazy, then when it's time to drop in, strip completely down and put on dry layers safely stored in the pack. 

Man there is some problems here....

1. I'm assuming you were skinning in either Tahoe or Mammoth area this weekend. That was not a good storm to go backcountry in (both safety wise and wetness), was barely worth it to go resort skiing after 10am in Tahoe. 

2. Hardshells for skinning = always not that good, especially when it's snaining. But if you have to like Mike McL said, thinnest base layer possible and a shell over that, which leads to my next point.

3. Unless you're in a skimo race you should be picking a pace that doesn't have you sweating much.

4. I hope you're kidding that you think caring and changing into a completely separate change of clothes is even remotely a good idea.

With all that said my go to BC storm skiing shell is a TNF L5 GTX Pro. Two huge pockets, pit zips, and the perfect level of durability/ weight

FWIW: I personally wear a Mountain Hardwear Cloudseeker jacket and I love it for this purpose. Pretty much made for ski touring. Excellent shell with pretty decent ventilation. But I too agree that as good as a jacket may be, it's probably unavoidable to sweat some when wearing a shell on the uphill. Generally in those conditions (medium/heavy precip on the uphill) I'll wear the shell over the baselayer and open up the vents as much as reasonable with the given precip to find the best balance between protection and breathabilty

I'm currently using a RAB Sharp Edge and have no complaints except it has no lower pockets - only two chest pockets. it does have a reversible front zipper and giant pit/side zippers.

Wow thanks all for the replies! Lot to digest. I like the idea of re-treating the jacket. I've had it for a few years -- don't know that it's been tested as rigorously as this past weekend, but it has always held up in summer thundershowers fine.

I also agree it is best to drop the pace to sweat less. This is probably the smartest move and it would be necessary to scale back the objective on the bad weather days. Just be glad to get out.

NorCalNomad, I was by Tokopah Falls (west side, maybe around 8000'). I do get WAY more conservative when conditions turn for the worse. It was warm and I have to imagine the wet precip. was slowly percolating through the pack generally destabilizing things. I didn't get on anything over 30 degrees, very mellow day, and turned back when the wind kicked up.