Beginner climber w/ big toe pain...normal?

Brand new here so forgive me if I'm in the wrong spot. I started seriously climbing around Feb 14 this year, so not even two weeks now. I'm have been going at least three times a week with my SO. Mind you, I lived a fairly sedentary lifestyle before this. I bought my own shoes, they are Scarpa Force V and have worked great. I have no discomfort when wear them...except in my big toes. I didn't notice it until this past four days approx., but right after climbing, I get this intense pain on top of my big toe right under the nail. Kind of at that small middle joint in your toe (sorry, idk correct medical terminology...(>_<). It almost feels like the joint is bruised, I thought it might've been sprained at first, that's how bad it felt to walk on it in bare feet, but after I rested it at home it seemed to lessen. My left toe feels like this too, but it's not at intense and more manageable. I looked up MTP and I don't know if it's that. But is it normal to have pain this early on in climbing?? Am I doing something incorrectly??  

I haven't personally heard of or experienced this. Maybe shoes can be too small or don't fit right? It could possibly be a result of climbing on small feet a lot. Maybe something to bring up to a physician. 

It's possible that you have knocked it without realising it could also be the result of going to big and constantly climbing on the very tip of the shoe. What position are your toes in inside the shoe, do your toes reach the end? Are your toes flat or curled over? 

Search the forums for toe pain (link for you). You can read about people who had various kind of toe pain and what they did about it (and the usual people saying to rush to the doctor). It may generally be more useful to post this type of question under Injuries and Accidents.

Given your stated newness to climbing, it might be that your feet are simply getting beat up by the activity. Climbing puts an enormous force on your big toe (where you have the most power, precision, and control), but this is not the same force you get in most other sports, besides dancing. Climbing shoes above bargain bin level, like the scarpa force v, encourage even more pressure on the big toe.

On top of this, I found as a beginner that I often kicked the wall when trying to place my foot on holds, or just in general as I flopped all over the place in an effort to get anywhere.

Anyway, footwork, form, and your body’s newness to the abuse climbing dishes out are something to consider, especially considering that the pain goes away after a days rest

that guy named seb wrote: It's possible that you have knocked it without realising it could also be the result of going to big and constantly climbing on the very tip of the shoe. What position are your toes in inside the shoe, do your toes reach the end? Are your toes flat or curled over? 

Hi Seb. My toes are touching the front of my shoe, definitely. They are curled very gently though. They aren't crammed up against my shoe to the point that they are curled up all the way. So not flat but not too curled imo. Most of the other shoes I tried on had my toes scrunched together. You bring up a good point, it could be I knocked it bouldering. The latter seems more and more likely to me because after I got home from top roping today, the pain was significantly less.

David Arredondo wrote: Given your stated newness to climbing, it might be that your feet are simply getting beat up by the activity. Climbing puts an enormous force on your big toe (where you have the most power, precision, and control), but this is not the same force you get in most other sports, besides dancing. Climbing shoes above bargain bin level, like the scarpa force v, encourage even more pressure on the big toe.

On top of this, I found as a beginner that I often kicked the wall when trying to place my foot on holds, or just in general as I flopped all over the place in an effort to get anywhere.

Anyway, footwork, form, and your body’s newness to the abuse climbing dishes out are something to consider, especially considering that the pain goes away after a days rest

As a beginner myself I'm going to go with both points here being the cause.

I find that when I'm not focusing on footwork form I kick the wall quite a bit.  This leave the front of my big toe feeling like the bruise from hell for a day or two.  I read an article somewhere that mentioned treating the holds like they are glass/fragile to help technique and I find this really helps me to be fluid and not flail like an idiot.  

I'm past the beginner stage where every muscle you didn't know you had gets sore after climbing.  thank god.  Who knew you could be so sore between each individual rib or between each toe?  I didn't even know I had muscles there...

But your nail is not bruised, right?
How long have you had your shoes?  Is it possible the shoe's toe box doesn't have enough depth?  Or it could just be inclined to flex at an awkward point for your foot?

Hayden robinson wrote:

Looks normal to me. Completely normal. If you have any questions about a deformity in your feet, ask the experts on Mountain Project. Whatever you so, don't consult a doctor or podiatrist.

Gabby R. wrote: Hi Seb. My toes are touching the front of my shoe, definitely. They are curled very gently though. They aren't crammed up against my shoe to the point that they are curled up all the way. So not flat but not too curled imo. Most of the other shoes I tried on had my toes scrunched together. You bring up a good point, it could be I knocked it bouldering. The latter seems more and more likely to me because after I got home from top roping today, the pain was significantly less.

Gabby the force v is a flat last and they intended your big toe to sit flat. Since they didn’t design the shoe for that type of fit you’re getting more pressure on top of the big toe knuckle, it’s going to be a tad uncomfortable. 

How many days have you climbed in them and for how many hours? If it’s over a dozen days those are just a smidge too small or just not quite the right last for your foot. If you haven’t had many days they will likely stretch a hair

Nick Drake wrote:

Gabby the force v is a flat last and they intended your big toe to sit flat. Since they didn’t design the shoe for that type of fit you’re getting more pressure on top of the big toe knuckle, it’s going to be a tad uncomfortable. 

How many days have you climbed in them and for how many hours? If it’s over a dozen days those are just a smidge too small or just not quite the right last for your foot. If you haven’t had many days they will likely stretch a hair

It's been about four weeks now I've been climbing w/ the Force V. The toe pain has gotten better, I'm happy to report...I can still feel some pain if I press on the top of my big toe, though. That photo up top ^^ kind of freaked me out because that's the exact spot where I'm having pain, lol. I shall have nightmares tonight. But to answer the second half of your question, they've gotten about 30 hours roughly, so not a ton of action. I've noticed they've stretched out a little bit.

I was in climbing shoes sense I was a kid, the tight shoes messed up my formative growth plates and joints. Dont worry, you’ll be fine.  My feet are just notoriously messed up. The attached photo is the December 2018 most heinous climbers feet feature 

Hayden,

Has a doc ever looked at your toes and diagnosed what's going on there?

To the OP and anyone else with toe bumps:

I used to wear 5.10 Coyotes, which were very comfortable for me on slab, except they probably didn't have a stiff enough sole for more vertical climbing. 5.10 stopped making these, and I switched to the Scarpa Helix, which was a little less comfortable over the top of my toes. I was climbing at the gym one day and felt kind of a weird sharp pain in my big toe, while using it to step up. It seemed like I just put pressure on it the wrong way. A week or two later, I noticed a small bump appeared on my toe knuckle, exactly in the spot where Hayden's toe bumps are. Right-hand side only. Very small, not inflamed looking like Hayden's are (so not red, just normal skin color), but at the same spot.

The bump didn't bother me, although I later noticed that my right big toe was not as flexible as my left one. I was worried this could be the beginning of something bad, not sure what. However, my experience with docs is not good (i.e. they usually look at my problem, tell me they don't know what causes it, and then look at me like I was crazy for bothering them with something trivial - and then I'm out a couple hundred bucks since I have a high deductible plan. Or worse, they charge for x-rays and expensive tests and then still tell me there's nothing wrong or no diagnosis or offer cortisone shots or other useless non-treatments).

I searched the internet and could find nothing about this, except for these couple of reddit posts:
https://www.reddit.com/r/climbing/comments/4za2ed/bump_on_top_of_big_toe_advice/
https://www.reddit.com/r/climbing/comments/7uppa2/bump_on_big_toe_1year_update_and_related_thoughts/

In the lengthy last post there is lots of info - well worth a read. He says:

I went to two podiatrists and one highly-regarded orthopedic surgeon who specializes in feet. I got two sets of x-rays. The first podiatrist said I had abnormal bone growth in the joint (a bone spur), but when I went to the surgeon she said the x-rays looked normal to her and if there was any excess bone growth it was really minimal. Therefore she didn't think it warranted surgery.
Either way, everyone agreed I had bursitis, which means that the fluid-filled sacs inside the joint started leaking/expanding as a result of trauma. Whether that means cumulative trauma from tight shoes or some kind of sudden trauma from jamming my foot isn’t entirely clear, but the more likely answer was cumulative.

Notice the almost complete uselessness (IMHO) of the docs.

In my case, the bump over my big toe hasn't been a big problem, just a minor one. Very rarely, that toe bothers me when hiking or climbing. Then I just have to remember to try not to place a lot of pressure on that toe, and the pain goes away. So maybe it's "just" persistent bursitis, or maybe it's a bone spur that's not interfering with movement too much. It could be a ganglion cyst, but it feels too hard for that. Maybe it will get worse, and I'll have to do something about it eventually.

I thought about trying the toe protectors used by reddit guy, but I didn't feel convinced that would do anything. So far, I haven't tried that.

Skip the doctors visit..... this is what they will say: “well maybe you should stop climbing, take up golf to get some fresh air” ...  

Send me the $110 ....

Hayden... nice feet. If I take my shoes off at the gym. Ladies scream, children cry and grown men runaway. 

Sizing up the shoes 1/2 size has solved that problem for me.  No loss in performance.  Resell the old shoes if that works and that will lessen the sting of buying a new pair.