Bolting trees

First of all, I am bored out of my mind right now and this seemed kinda interesting to me. Could you put solid bolts in a tree and would it kill the tree?

Edit: no, this is not a troll 

Bennett G wrote: First of all, I am bored out of my mind right now and this seemed kinda interesting to me. Could you put solid bolts in a tree and would it kill the tree?

Edit: no, this is not a troll 

If you did, they’d prolly get chopped. Per the alpinism and religion thread, The Flying Spaghetti Monster put up all trees ground-up on natural pro only, and he woodn’t appreciate retrobolting.

On a slightly more serious note, the process of obtaining maple syrup involves drilling trees, and they seem to survive.

Paging Dr. Watson.

Try Cam wrote:

On a slightly more serious note, the process of obtaining maple syrup involves drilling trees, and they seem to survive.

Not exactly the same. Drilling through the trunk of a tree goes through the xylem and phloem, which are like the tree's circular system, whereas the process for maple syrup only pierces the bark to get to the syrup, which is stored outside of the xylem and phloem. 

You could use a "Headlock" type screw, and no, it wouldn't kill the tree. It'd be better than people rapping directly off of it and pulling their rope, over and over. That will eventually kill a tree.

PS, I wouldn't want to take a lead fall on those screws though!

There are plenty of challenge courses that use lag bolts that go deep into trees, or bolts that go all the way through. The trees I've seen are surviving just fine.

I’d love to watch someone try to tighten a wedge bolt in wet wood. That sounds like a delightful waste of an afternoon.

There’s a guy on YouTube that machines a bolt out of a potato. You should colab with him on this project.

Dylan Pike wrote: There are plenty of challenge courses that use lag bolts that go deep into trees, or bolts that go all the way through. The trees I've seen are surviving just fine.

I run a ropes course. Lag bolts have fallen out of favor by now but as you've said, ones that go all the way through are considered SOP.

Like these guys.

Here we go. Watch this guy’s videos and all your questions will be answered and boredom cured.

eli poss wrote:

Not exactly the same. Drilling through the trunk of a tree may destroy the xylem and phloem,...

In that 3/8"-1/2" spot. It won't affect the tree unless it is cut all the way around the tree.

Marc801 C wrote: In that 3/8"-1/2" spot. It won't affect the tree unless it is cut all the way around the tree.

Sorry, destroy was not the right word. I just meant that it would cut through the xylem and phloem. 

A couple years ago my friend and i got bored and made a 7 bolt ladder up a huge sycamore in his backyard to learn how to lead A0/1. Used the big ring/lag screw eyelet things.

It was fun for like... a day, then we got bored and instantly regretted fucking with the tree. Although the tree is still thriving today

Trees are way more resilient than any of you sport climbers.

eli poss wrote:

Not exactly the same. Drilling through the trunk of a tree goes through the xylem and phloem, which are like the tree's circular system, whereas the process for maple syrup only pierces the bark to get to the syrup, which is stored outside of the xylem and phloem. 

No - xylem is the tissue responsible for the majority of tree sap (i.e. syrup) transport. A tap pierces bark (dead phloem), phloem, and cambium (both smaller components of a tree's vascular system) to enter xylem tissue and withdraw sap to distillation for syrup.

To the OP: yes you could probably bolt a solid tree and have it survive - but you'd probably want to drill through the centre to the other side and fit a compression nut on the opposite end. A normal rock bolt may be suspect at 4" into a tree, plus it would be difficult to get it to sit flush with the xylem without doing even more damage to the tree.. If left in place, the tree would heal around it. There is a possibility that this would introduce disease into the tree (fungal or bacterial infections), but trees do have mechanism's to deal with this.

Not sure why you would want to do this rather than sling the tree.

FosterK wrote:

No - xylem is the tissue responsible for the majority of tree sap (i.e. syrup) transport. A tap pierces bark (dead phloem), phloem, and cambium (both smaller components of a tree's vascular system) to enter xylem tissue and withdraw sap to distillation for syrup.

To the OP: yes you could probably bolt a solid tree and have it survive - but you'd probably want to drill through the centre to the other side and fit a compression nut on the opposite end. A normal rock bolt may be suspect at 4" into a tree, plus it would be difficult to get it to sit flush with the xylem without doing even more damage to the tree.. If left in place, the tree would heal around it. There is a possibility that this would introduce disease into the tree (fungal or bacterial infections), but trees do have mechanism's to deal with this.

Not sure why you would want to do this rather than sling the tree.

Ooops, thank you for the correction. 

Sometime in the 70s at Oregon State next to the Outdoor Program building a tree was bolted and was used for practicing aid climbing. By the time I was a student there in the early 80s the tree had grown enough that the hangers were being incapsulated by the bark. 

Find a gym.

You know how they say “there’s no such thing as a stupid question?”

They’re wrong.

Xylem brings water and nutrients up from the roots. Phloem brings carbohydrates and sugars down from the canopy as a product of photosynthesis. Cambium is the layer between the bark and the phloem. If you were cutting through a tree you would hit bark, cambium, phloem, xylem, and finally nonconductive heartwood. Heartwood however does store some carbohydrate.

Don't drill trees please.

Tradiban wrote: Trees are was more resilient than any of you sport climbers.

This.

Don't use compression/expansion anything in a hole in a tree. If you are not trying to die, and you MUST bolt a tree (which there's really not reason because slings and webbing exist), use a heavy duty screw rated for holding up a house. Certain lag screws are better than others. Read the specs on the packaging. If you're not around 1500-2000 lb safe working load, you shouldn't be using them for a hanger.