Why use a third hand?

Hi,
awhile back someone posted on here asking whether anyone had ever been saved by their third hand when abseiling. They were not trying to argue against using one, just wanted to know.

If I remember correctly, and I probably don't. People found it hard to come up with a data point.

Well, now I have one.

I was climbing in Jordan last month when my partner, an experienced climber, slipped while abseiling. To avoid face-planting, she put her hand out in front of her face. This involved letting go of the rope. It was clearly an instinctive act, which no amount of skill or training could negate.

David Coley wrote: Hi,
awhile back someone posted on here asking whether anyone had ever been saved by their third hand when abseiling. They were not trying to argue against using one, just wanted to know.

If I remember correctly, and I probably don't. People found it hard to come up with a data point.

Well, now I have one.

I was climbing in Jordan last month when my partner, an experienced climber, slipped while abseiling. To avoid face-planting, she put her hand out in front of her face. This involved letting go of the rope. It was clearly an instinctive act, which no amount of skill or training could negate.

I beg to differ on that.... but I'm very glad she's ok!

Familiarity creates laxity, wherein bad habits creep up. While it is possible more rigid training would have encouraged her to faceplant instead of putting out a hand, I'm very glad your third-hand system took on the moment and held her!

1/10

Use your other hand to stop yourself... That's my instinct. But yes I usually use a third hand

I have had a third hand save me from certain pain and possible death....my partners not mine.  Rappelling down Royal Arches, and my partner, who is mid-rappel is hit on the brake hand with a golf ball sized rock knocked down from above. He totally lost control of the rappel and was caught by his prussik above his tuber. His right had was not broken, but he couldn't really use it, he had a leather glove on. Luckily we had already done 10-12 rappels so we were close to the end, and he used his left hand.

There was a fatality in Washington Pass in 2017 that would have been prevented with a third hand according to the incident report:

While descending the west ridge of Forbidden after successfully summiting, an experienced
Mountaineers climber performed a diagonal rappel to one side of the natural fall line. She lost her
footing and a large pendulum resulted in blunt force trauma that caused her to lose consciousness, and
without an autoblock or knots in the ends of the rappel rope, she slipped down the rope and off the
end. Based on the information from a thorough investigation, the primary cause of this fatality incident
was the pendulum caused by rappelling well off of the fall line and the secondary cause was not
employing backup systems to protect from sliding off the end of the rope (e.g., placing knots in the rope
ends or using an autoblock).

Bellingham Herald story: https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/article163301993.html
Incident Summary Report: https://www.mountaineers.org/blog/forbidden-incident-accident-summary-report

Carson Darling wrote: There was a fatality in Washington Pass in 2017 that would have been prevented with a third hand according to the incident report:
Bellingham Herald story: https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/article163301993.html
Incident Summary Report: https://www.mountaineers.org/blog/forbidden-incident-accident-summary-report

I have experienced a similar large pendulum swing on rappel, but was able to brace the impact with my foot first. I did not use a third hand at the time. If I hit my head first, I would've probably lost control of the rappel and would've fallen down a nasty gully to the knots at the end of the rope. Now, I always use a third hand on rappel.

 Many years ago a buddy was setting up his rappel at some backwoods, scruffy cliff. Before he got the ropes into his ATC, the dirt mound he was standing on completely fell off. He was left dangling on his autoblock.

Gunkiemike wrote:  Many years ago a buddy was setting up his rappel at some backwoods, scruffy cliff. Before he got the ropes into his ATC, the dirt mound he was standing on completely fell off. He was left dangling on his autoblock.

Similar circumstance for me....the snow/ice mound I was standing on gave way....it's one of several reasons why I always attach my autoblock before my ATC.

Secondly, it's very convenient to use both hands untangling ropes mid-rappel. 

I use one if I have to remove gear on the way down, or if I am searching for an anchor on a multipitch rappel.  Not sure if it has specifically "saved" my life, but it sure has made it a lot easier a few times. 

Why wouldnt you use a rappel backup? 

Gunkiemike wrote:  Many years ago a buddy was setting up his rappel at some backwoods, scruffy cliff. Before he got the ropes into his ATC, the dirt mound he was standing on completely fell off. He was left dangling on his autoblock.

Wouldn't staying attached to the anchor until you have fully set up and tested your rappel system be a better way to prevent this? 

David S wrote:

Similar circumstance for me....the snow/ice mound I was standing on gave way....it's one of several reasons why I always attach my autoblock before my ATC.

Not to be a critic, since I'm also a big fan of using a rappel backup. But wouldn't it be a good practice to attach one's self to the anchor first when setting up the rappel near the edge?

Edited to add: Em Cos beat me to it.

David Coley wrote: I was climbing in Jordan last month when my partner, an experienced climber, slipped while abseiling. To avoid face-planting, she put her hand out in front of her face. This involved letting go of the rope. It was clearly an instinctive act, which no amount of skill or training could negate.

Instinctual act, yes absolutely. The other part, well maybe. On more than one occasion, I have encountered the same situation (although using an assisted braking rappel device) and I put my hands out while still holding the brake strand. Just because you slip, swing, pendulum, or whatever doesn't necessarily mean that you will let go of the rope.

Now on the other hand, I wouldn't want to bet my life on the odds of my muscle memory overriding instincts. I think that enough training and muscle memory can sometimes override instinctual reflexes but probably not always. Glad your friend is okay and that this lesson to be learned didn't come at a very high price.  

eli poss wrote:

Instinctual act, yes absolutely. The other part, well maybe. On more than one occasion, I have encountered the same situation (although using an assisted braking rappel device) and I put my hands out while still holding the brake strand. Just because you slip, swing, pendulum, or whatever doesn't necessarily mean that you will let go of the rope.

Now on the other hand, I wouldn't want to bet my life on the odds of my muscle memory overriding instincts. I think that enough training and muscle memory can sometimes override instinctual reflexes but probably not always. Glad your friend is okay and that this lesson to be learned didn't come at a very high price.  

+1

Why even take a chance, when it takes 30 seconds to rig.

The only time I maybe won't use one is on a big slab, where I can see the entire rap route and the ends of the rope. 

I once slipped going past an overhanging and let go, which I know I shouldn't have but did. The autoblock kept me from sliding 30' or so down a slab to the ground.

So yeah, I'm always using one now even though it costs me a whopping extra minute to rig.

Knots in the end of the rope are an even better practice, and would likely have prevented this fatality, or any rappelling error where the rope ends are off the ground. Even backup prusiks have failure modes in panicked situations (see MP Post where the climber squeezed the backup preventing it from stopping the fall). But that's not a reason against using a backup.

aikibujin wrote: Not to be a critic, since I'm also a big fan of using a rappel backup. But wouldn't it be a good practice to attach one's self to the anchor first when setting up the rappel near the edge?

Edited to add: Em Cos beat me to it.

My explanation could lead you to think that....let's just say I always extend my rappel device with a locker at the end of the extension for secure connection to the anchor.

The ground gave way when I removed my locker to the anchor.

I always autoblock first so I can test the autoblock, and then attach ATC so I can test the system before disconnecting myself from the anchor.

Briggs Lazalde wrote: I've said it before and ill say it again. Using an autoblock made me a better man, and a better lover. Just do it

A better lover? You're supposed to put the autoblock on your rope, not...never mind.

The connect has made life much easier for rap transitions and anchor building. I run a autolocker on the PAS end and a edelrid Bulletproof locker/ ATC on the shorter loop as my rap extension. My sterling autoblock is run off a customized short quickdraw with dual auto lockers off my "leg loop". Like someone else mentioned I also attach my autoblock first, ATC second and weight test the system by extending the Petzl PAS fully. Only once I'm happy with the setup do I disconnect the PAS portion from the anchor and beggin my rap. On multi pitch routes where the rope is off-ground I always knot the ends. 

Wish I had a good autoblock saved me from death story but fortunately I've never had an issue rappelling.