What happened to the new Five Ten shoes?

Karl Walters wrote: Talked to the rep at a shoe demo the other day. He claims the shoes are in the warehouse and there's some glitch with the site.

He had the "new" Hiangles- they made the elastic wider, changed the toe hook patch slightly, and apparently it and the Dragon have the same toebox last now. He also didn't seem to know much about climbing shoes. None of the reps did.

There is a VCS Dragon now, so having the same last as the Dragon doesn't make sense....but then again, very little of what they have done since the takeover makes sense.

It looks like they did changed the top box on the Hiangles.  Wow, I never saw that coming.   And the price changed from $160 to $150.  Adidas is imploding this brand =/

Karl Walters wrote: Talked to the rep at a shoe demo the other day. He claims the shoes are in the warehouse and there's some glitch with the site.

He had the "new" Hiangles- they made the elastic wider, changed the toe hook patch slightly, and apparently it and the Dragon have the same toebox last now. He also didn't seem to know much about climbing shoes. None of the reps did.

Don Ton wrote: It looks like they did changed the top box on the Hiangles.  Wow, I never saw that coming.   And the price changed from $160 to $150.  Adidas is imploding this brand =/

Is there a picture somewhere? Hiangles are my jam. Hopefully they're close enough to the old model.

Don Ton wrote: It looks like they did changed the top box on the Hiangles.  Wow, I never saw that coming.   And the price changed from $160 to $150.  Adidas is imploding this brand =/

Or would it be exploding since they came from the outside...? The terminology matters man!

Look from the top down at the 2 models on the site. The one you get to by clicking from the home page is the new one. The differences look marginal, but might matter.

MisterSir wrote:

There is a VCS Dragon now, so having the same last as the Dragon doesn't make sense....but then again, very little of what they have done since the takeover makes sense.

There was always a VCS Dragon; it was called the Blackwing.

Don Ton wrote:
It looks like they did changed the top box on the Hiangles.  Wow, I never saw that coming.   And the price changed from $160 to $150.  Adidas is imploding this brand =/

Are you complaining about them DECREASING the price? Lol.

the original dragon was vcs as well

there is a new asym velcro
https://www.adidasoutdoor.com/five-ten-asym-vcs-mens-climbing-shoe/BTM56.html?dwvar_BTM56_color=Active_Green&cgid=fiveten-men-climb-shoes
looks interesting, velcro on a mocc last?

People will always be uncomfortable about change and most often resist it, and while this period for 5.10 right now is a bit of a "growing pains" stage, only time will tell on which direction 5.10 goes.

I see this time period for 5.10 as the transition phase of it becoming Adidas. Adidas is slowly increasing the amount of Adidas brand they put on the shoes but I bet the 5.10 logo will just disappear altogether at some point from the shoes. I would also probably say that within a few years to a decade from now, 5.10 as a brand may not exist and may exist solely as Adidas. The 5.10 we knew died years ago when Adidas bought it.

I'm not a 5.10 user except for the anasazis but I'm actually eagar to see what Adidas can do for the climbing shoe world as it is the second biggest player in the shoe industry. I'm sure Nike is watching how Adidas fares closely since they need to compete, and with Adidas already entered into the climbing shoe industry and the popularity of climbing increasing in the USA, I'm sure Nike is heavily considering entering the climbing shoe industry.

Adidas could improve/revolutionize the climbing shoe world by putting materials, technology, shoe manufacturing expertise, and industrial manufacturing methods and machinery previously unavailable in the climbing shoe industry.

Adidas could also ruin the quality of 5.10 climbing shoes.

It'd also be extremely interesting to see what materials and technology they decide to use. Compare soccer shoes to climbing shoes and the difference in amount of technology, different types of materials used to achieve better performance, the amount of development done on a shoe. The difference is vast between soccer shoes and climbing shoes. It'd be really cool to see some of the soccer shoe technology and development methods bleed over to climbing and what tech and materials are applicable to climbing. Scarpa is playing around a lot with materials and manufacturing atm, but the R&D of scarpa is relatively tiny compared to the kind of R&D Adidas COULD do if it actually decided to invest in it. 

With Adidas obviously playing a larger role now in the development of the 5.10 shoes compared to the initial buy out, only time will tell if the Adidas influence on 5.10 shoes are for the better or worse. However, with the industrial manufacturing capabilities that Adidas brings, it'd be nice if better and cheaper production methods means the prices of shoes came down.

gumbie gene wrote: Adidas could improve/revolutionize the climbing shoe world by putting materials, technology, shoe manufacturing expertise, and industrial manufacturing methods and machinery previously unavailable in the climbing shoe industry.

I want a climbing shoe, not a stealth bomber, you know? Miuras I'm wearing were initially released in 1997. I'm pretty much fine with wearing them for the rest of my life. 

Or like, did Reebok become this ultra forward-thinking, radically visionary company after being bought up by Addidas? Or did they just make sure for Crossfitters who bought them b/c of an insane marketing campaign?

Long Ranger wrote:

I want a climbing shoe, not a stealth bomber, you know? Miuras I'm wearing were initially released in 1997. I'm pretty much fine with wearing them for the rest of my life. 

Or like, did Reebok become this ultra forward-thinking, radically visionary company after being bought up by Addidas? Or did they just make sure for Crossfitters who bought them b/c of an insane marketing campaign?

You may say "I just want a climbing shoe" now, but the people climbing the classic 5.7, 5.8, and 5.9 trad routes in the 1960s in hiking boots without climbing rubber probably thought the same thing about their "climbing shoes" 

The pattern of the user resistant to change, even if it's for the better, is a reoccurent human pattern.

Cams (SCLDs), chalk and chalk bags vs no chalk, bouldering pads vs towel, polyamide ropes vs hemp ropes, down turned climbing shoes vs flat shoes, toe rubber, ATCs vs hip belay, autoblocking devices vs ATCs, this list goes on. ALL of these things were at one time very new and fringe technology entering the climbing world and each of these things met resistance and yet, look at the world now. These things with materials and tech new for the climbing world, but not new for other industries, revolutionized the climbing world. We now consider these innovations not as innovations but as the normal. This only emphasizes my hope and point that this period, for 5.10 and the climbing world, is hopefully a transition period to the next gen and Adidas MAY be the one to bring about a new innovation as they certainly have the resources, expertise in shoe manufacturing, and access to manufacturing technology to do so. 

Yes, corportization has led to failures and I've stated that Adidas could ruin the quality of 5.10 climbing shoes. However, something corporations hate more than anything is loss of revenue.

The climbing shoe world is increasingly becoming a competitive one with more players entering and becoming or already are good contenders. If you take into consideration that Nike, Adidas's #1 competitor, may enter this niche of the industry in a larger capacity (BD's knit uppers are from a Nike collaboration) to compete against Adidas, one can see how it would be in Adidas's best interests in terms of revenue to innovate now before the next biggest and heaviest player enters.

gumbie gene wrote: . It'd be really cool to see some of the soccer shoe technology and development bleed over to climbing and what tech and materials are applicable to climbing. Scarpa is playing around a lot with materials and manufacturing atm, but the R&D of scarpa is relatively tiny compared to the kind of R&D Adidas COULD do if it actually decided to invest in 

The one caveat here is that scarpa has a downright genius when it comes to climbing shoe design heading that r&d team who has been one hell of a strong rock climber since the mid 70s (and at least 13d by late 80s). He understands the need of hard climbing in ways that I’m sure would be hard to articulate to a team of engineers who have only struggle bused their way up a v1 ladder at the local gym.

No amount of budget will make up for that. I know that Fred Nicole was the driver on the aleon that hasn’t released. Will they put him in charge of design? 

Rob T wrote: Not to mention both Reebok and Nike have tried their hand at this before and failed miserably, running away with their tails between their legs(so much for hating loss).  

That doesn’t mean that it’ll be the same outcome this time, just that the budget hasn’t helped them in the past, we’ll see if this time is different. 

Could you elaborate on reebok and Nike entering the climbing shoe industry? I didn't know they have entered before besides Nike collaborating with BD on the knit uppers from the BD shoes and would be interested to know more details

Can this thread not become another Adidas ownership rant?

gumbie gene wrote:

You may say "I just want a climbing shoe" now, but the people climbing the classic 5.7, 5.8, and 5.9 trad routes in the 1960s in hiking boots without climbing rubber probably thought the same thing about their "climbing shoes" 

The pattern of the user resistant to change, even if it's for the better, is a reoccurent human pattern.

Cams (SCLDs), chalk and chalk bags vs no chalk, bouldering pads vs towel, polyamide ropes vs hemp ropes, down turned climbing shoes vs flat shoes, toe rubber, ATCs vs hip belay, autoblocking devices vs ATCs, this list goes on. ALL of these things were at one time very new and fringe technology entering the climbing world and each of these things met resistance and yet, look at the world now. These things with materials and tech new for the climbing world, but not new for other industries, revolutionized the climbing world. We now consider these innovations not as innovations but as the normal. This only emphasizes my hope and point that this period, for 5.10 and the climbing world, is hopefully a transition period to the next gen and Adidas MAY be the one to bring about a new innovation as they certainly have the resources, expertise in shoe manufacturing, and access to manufacturing technology to do so. 

Yes, corportization has led to failures and I've stated that Adidas could ruin the quality of 5.10 climbing shoes. However, something corporations hate more than anything is loss of revenue.

The climbing shoe world is increasingly becoming a competitive one with more players entering and becoming or already are good contenders. If you take into consideration that Nike, Adidas's #1 competitor, may enter this niche of the industry in a larger capacity (BD's knit uppers are from a Nike collaboration) to compete against Adidas, one can see how it would be in Adidas's best interests in terms of revenue to innovate now before the next biggest and heaviest player enters.

Many of these things come in waves, though.  For example, in the short time that I’ve been climbing, I’ve seen shoe trends pendulum between soft and sensitive and stiff and back again.  Even flat lasted shoes are coming back, because comp kids are appreciating their versatility (Shauna Coxsey won the World Cup a few years back in Anasazis).  Not disagreeing with your overall point, only pointing out that it’s not necessarily a linear progression.

Reebok Climbing shoes 

Rob T wrote:

Here's a pair of Nike acg climbing shoes from the web, say about mid 90's.  Can't find a pic of the Reebocks but remember that hey were green and purple, Skinner was a spokesman, possibly designer?  My only point was the big names have tried and failed before.  Doesn't mean they will this time, just that their size doesn't guarantee success.

I'll delete this in the morning so this thread can stay on the topic of current 5.10 catalog fit and function.

LOLOL WHAT IDIOT DESIGNED THESE

I agree with you that size doesn't equal success and would prefer that the smaller companies not get outcompeted. Debacles like these give me a lot of hope. Much appreciated :)

Alright, shutting up now to keep these a 5.10 shoes specific thread. Byeeeeeeeee

gumbie gene wrote:

You may say "I just want a climbing shoe" now, but the people climbing the classic 5.7, 5.8, and 5.9 trad routes in the 1960s in hiking boots without climbing rubber probably thought the same thing about their "climbing shoes" 

Those routes are all around me, and I climb them in running shoes.

Cams (SCLDs), chalk and chalk bags vs no chalk, bouldering pads vs towel, polyamide ropes vs hemp ropes, down turned climbing shoes vs flat shoes, toe rubber, ATCs vs hip belay, autoblocking devices vs ATCs, this list goes on. 

Other than ATC's -> autoblocking, pretty similar to 20+ years ago, when I started.

The climbing shoe world is increasingly becoming a competitive one with more players entering and becoming or already are good contenders. If you take into consideration that Nike, Adidas's #1 competitor, may enter this niche of the industry in a larger capacity (BD's knit uppers are from a Nike collaboration) to compete against Adidas, one can see how it would be in Adidas's best interests in terms of revenue to innovate now before the next biggest and heaviest player enters.

I look at modern climbing shoes, and they all seem the same to me. It boils down to, "does this fit my foot", and then: personal preference on shape. I think, like the GREAT majority of people on this site, I'm far from outstripping the performance of whatever gear I'm using. I could improve. No futuristic and highly theoretical shoe is really going to make me improve. 

I see the same marketing talk for running shoes (and bicycles, and what have you) - look: does it fit my foot? Is it built for the terrain I intend to run in? Good: use the hell out of it. Like running shoes, I think a lot of climbing gear has gotten pretty mature and any improvements are particularly incremental.

Myself and many friends have tried those shoes, they are not the same. Many differences.

Confirmation from Five Ten support today that Dragon, Aleon, and Dragon VCS have a release date of 8/11/19

Karl Walters wrote: Confirmation from Five Ten support today that Dragon, Aleon, and Dragon VCS have a release date of 8/11/19

Good thing they haven't been taking out full page ads in every climbing publication saying spring 2019 for the past 6 months.