ATTN: Brotherhood of the Wide Forefoot - shoe info/brief reviews

The past couple of weeks, I've been researching new shoes. This is because my gym beaters also became outdoor shoes for a couple of Shelf trips when the Mythos bought the farm, thus accelerating wear. Also, I discovered last weekend that I needed to stop using the Mantras ASAP until the toe caps were rebuilt, or I'd break through the stitching.

I also wanted to explore other options because I'm feeling a bit of the same itch that resulted in switching from Evolv Defys to the Mythos a few years ago - occasionally there are limitations to what I can do, sprinkled with a bit of curiosity about new-to-me models. So I stopped into a couple of shops and tried things on. Here are the results, summarized:

* Butora Mantra (green)
Fit well, both due to width and due to lacing all the way to toe. Can take a couple of months to break in, expect to put extra focus on your footwork during that time to avoid skating off holds you didn't expect, but once they break in, they are great for bouldering, man that stiff sole really helps when you're a lardass like me. Def getting the pair I have resoled, and was notably tempted to buy another pair in the meantime.

* Butora Altura (green)
Nominally same size, shape, and color as Mantra but in a mid top. Easily went on feet, but I'll be damned if I'm going to have a pair of shoes rub my Achilles so badly it will leave me bleeding after a full day of climbing. Might work with some moleskin, but, if I'm getting the Mantras resoled, why bother... I definitely encourage other people to try them, you might not have same issue as me.

* Butora Narsha (orange; possibly discontinued?)
Had not heard of these before this weekend, but they were listed on Rock & Resole's website, so added to list to try. Apparently all the orange model have been sold since they are now on clearance and won't be reordered. I did get to try on a size 14 pair in Wilderness Exchange's consignment bin. That pair was amply wide, just too long; I'd want to try size 13 (or maybe even 12.5) vs the 14. I'm mentioning here in case someone else finds the info useful and sees a sale.

* Sportiva Tarantulace
New to me. Someone in a 2017 thread said "try these", so I added to my notes. Ended up buying a pair, immediately went to bouldering gym. They performed well, i.e., no major break-in period needed. These may be my new gym shoes since the Cypher Prefix has been discontinued.

* Sportiva Skwama
Hard no for me. 45 goes on the feet but has dead space between toes and toe cap. 44.5 went on feet after significant struggle, but immediately started restricting circulation to toes.

* Scarpa Vapor V
Also a no. Couldn't get on my feet, even after going up a couple of sizes from comparable Mythos size.

* Scarpa Helix
Went on feet. One foot fit like a dream, the other fit like a toss up between months of breaking in at the pinky toe and possibly never breaking in at all. If money were no object, I'd get a pair just to take the gamble.

* Evolv The General
I tried these on the suggestion of R&R's staff. Whoever The General is, his feet would not appear to be particularly wide.

* Mad Rock Agama
Close but no cigar. And by close, I mean I came close to whacking sales rep in the head trying to get one on my damn foot when she sat down to try and help. Even after sizing up to the biggest WildyX has in stock.

* Sportiva Kataki
You can't believe everything you read on the internet. Like many athletic shoes in my past, sizing wide enough to get on my foot required sizing long enough to have significant empty space between toes and shoe. Tried 3 pairs, I believe.

* BD anything
There's lies, damned lies, and claims that anything with BD's name on it is wide.

Nice to hear, I'll try goong further up next time a Scarpa looks intriguing. Still a gamble though, my feet are 4E at the best of times.

Anything unlined leather upper stretches a lot, so works great. Certainly not aggressive, but as the gent at R&R mused, just about anything beats the shoe you can't get on your foot.

caughtinside wrote: Regarding scarpa vs sportiva sizing, they are miles apart. When I used to cram my foot into shoes that were too narrow for me (katanas) I wore a 42 sportiva. I wear a 44 or a 44.5 in most scarpa models... which happens to be my street shoe size.

My foot is wide, but not absurdly so. I find I can’t wear any sportiva.  Because of the shape of my foot, I can’t wear scarpas from the Instinct line, but most of their other shoes tend to fit me pretty well.

I’m surprised mythos worked for you. Sure, they are highly adjustable, but I looked at the toe shape, and then at the shape of my forefoot, they are not even close. 

Interesting that you're that far apart between scarpa and sportiva. For me the split is typically one euro size up in scarpa. Testes and skwama are a 40, drago and chimera are a 41. I do bump up to a 41.5 vapor lace for trad though and was down in a 39.5 for the pythons. 

Mythos is pretty much the only shoe I've ever been able to wear without incredible big toe pain. I own 4 pair of various sizes and rubbers
I do have Muiras that have stretched out well and are tolerable for single pitch.
Moccasins also fit well after a break in but I don't particulary like them except for very specific application (thin cracks and overhanging cobbles)
Other soft leather shoes have too much rubber around the toebox to allow stretch.
Anyone else experience this with other shoe recs? 

^^I had the exact same problem with Katanas.  I found that if you sized up a little higher they worked well, especially since the heel was nice and narrow, but you’re probably right that they’re not a great fit for wide feet.

How do your heels compare to your forefoot?  I have narrow heels and wide forefeet, which is a pain because everything either results in crammed toes or loose heels.  The Five Ten Anasazi line is perfect for my foot FWIW, especially the laces (Pink, Blanco).  I’m surprised the Scarpas didn’t work, as they tend to run wide.

I've got a wide forefoot and a narrowish heel. I've found 5.10 pinks and scarpa Instict vs to work for me pretty well. Most sportiva is painful.

Scarpa heels have too much deadspace for me. Skwama in 40 is bliss. Hiangles are OK once they break in, but suck at first. Katanas seem better for me than Katakis, and Testarossas are by far the best fit.

Feet shaped like Donald Duck. Tarantulace of the current crop of midrange/budget shoes fit me best. 

Another mid-wide forefoot + narrow heel climber checking in who has tried nearly every shoe on the market... many Five Ten shoes fit this bill, specifically the blue Quantum Lace and Quantum VCS, but also the Blackwing and Dragon.

Quantum Lace + Butora Acro + Scarpa Instinct VS are all pretty similar fits, with the Quantum Lace having the most narrow / low volume heel of the bunch... it's currently my fav shoe for every kind of climbing. Ridiculously versatile, perfect level of stiffness.

For the record I think the idea of a "beater shoe" is dumb. Train how you want to perform. If you're an AAC member, you get 40% off of 5.10 shoes... this is the only gear that directly affects performance, and I know many absolute dirtbags who still gladly fork over $30 every 6 months to climb their best.

I have a wide foot and can now report the Scarpa Origin fits it nicely and is not that expensive to boot. It took a little while to break in, and they aren't as comfy as Moccasyms, but the velcro closures are nice. No heel deadspace issues, either. I had that issue on the 5.10 Rogues.

I agree with Svvenson on the 5.10 Quantum, wide forefoot, narrow heel. I prefer the VCS, it feels like it puts more power through the toe. Note the Quantum does stretch about 1/2 size so I got them pretty tight so they didnt turn floppy. 

I also have a pair of Tenaya Mundakas for the gym that fit amazingly well. They dont have the widest last, but the whole shoe is like a stretchable sock, it accommodates a wide foot easily. Very comfortable shoe. I tried climbing outdoors with them in a variety of places ( Seneca, Reeds, Carderock ) and they are just too soft for me on real rock. Great gym shoes though.