Two way radios walkie talkies

I’m curious info the higher end (like Motorola) FRS 2 way radios really have greater then 2 mile range in miuntainious terrain.
They suggest that on the packaging. If not, what type of lightweight compact radio would give me up to a ten mile range in mountainous areas?

• Ten mile range needed? Ye must be belaying with a looooong rope... ;-)

I've looked into walkie talkies for use in the mountains (hiking, not climbing). While some tout unreal distances, this really only applies to the rolling hayfields of Kansas or Iowa. If you're in the mountains and one person is over a ridge, forget about it. The high-power walkie talkies also require a license to use, although I may have heard something about this recently being phased out. You either need professional-level radios or a pair of satellite devices. I'd highly recommend the Garmin inReach, specifically the newer mini version paired with a phone. The cost is obviously more than walkie talkies but it is an amazing device with extraordinary capabilities.

There's also a newcomer to the satellite-communication market, the SatPaq by Higher Ground. This device is cheaper, seemingly easier to use, lasts a long time on a single charge, and has cheaper messaging fees/plans. The huge downside to this device is that it only works in the contiguous 48, but depending on your plans this may be a good solution.

I've used an inReach quite a bit (not the mini) and think it is an excellent tool. I have no first-hand experience with the SatPaq.

t.farrell wrote: There are much cheaper radios with equivalent range or better. Also in general, you’re going to be very lucky to get anywhere close to advertised range in the mountains. Too much interference.

The go-to starter is Baofeng UV-5. It’s a little confusing to set up, but there are tons of videos on YouTube bc it really is the go-to. 

Don't do this (buying and using a uv-5r) unless you have an an FCC amateur radio license. It's illegal, and you'll get fined potentialy $$$  thousands if they catch you. Stick with an FRS/GMRS radio (store bought), and stay off the gmrs frequencies because you need a license for those as well. All bulk pack FRS radios will perform about the Same since their power is capped at 0.5 Watts. It's not hard to get an amateur radio license, and using repeater stations are pretty much the only way to get increased range in mountainous terrain. All VHF/UHF radios (walkie talkies of any sort) are pretty much line of sight, so increased power won't even really help much without repeaters.

R R wrote:

Don't do this (buying and using a uv-5r) unless you have an an FCC amateur radio license. It's illegal, and you'll get fined potentialy $$$  thousands if they catch you. Stick with an FRS/GMRS radio (store bought), and stay off the gmrs frequencies because you need a license for those as well. All bulk pack FRS radios will perform about the Same since their power is capped at 0.5 Watts. It's not hard to get an amateur radio license, and using repeater stations are pretty much the only way to get increased range in mountainous terrain. All VHF/UHF radios (walkie talkies of any sort) are pretty much line of sight, so increased power won't even really help much without repeaters.

I just looked into it because I had heard some rumor about the licensing changing. Here is what changed:

• In 2017, the Commission designated additional channels for FRS use and reclassified certain dual-use FRS-General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) units as FRS-only units for which no individual license is needed. A GMRS license is still needed to operate with more than 2 watts ERP; to operate on frequencies 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz; or to use a detachable antenna.
• You can operate your FRS unit anywhere in the U.S. and its possessions.

This is per https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/personal-radio-services-prs-keeping-touch

So it looks like one can get away without a license for slightly more powerful walkie talkies, but they are still essentially useless in the mountains.

Go ham radio or stick with the FRS/GMRS radios. Ham radios have detachable antennas. You can run a small antenna for close comms then switch to a wire antenna you stick on the end of your hiking pole for amazing distance. Get you ham license and don't look back. I was able to reach fresno over 40 mile away when backpacking and needed to get a message out to my pick up car.

Looked into this a while back, just out of curiousity, but was getting a little confused on all the terminology. Anyone have a good ELI5 place to start getting into the more powerful radios?

We use Motorola radios guiding on Rainier and the “range” is extremely variable. On the north side of Rainier we can talk to other guides on the south side of Baker (~130miles) however when we are above disappointment cleaver we can’t usally talk to people at the base of the cleaver (1000m). It’s all about line of sight. (Sorry I have no idea what model we use but I know we switched so digital a few years back and a few people weren’t thrilled)

It is actually quite easy to get a ham radio license; you should really look into getting one. You just have to pay a small fee and pass an easy test. My call sign Is AB0G.

Depending on where you are talking about, there may be mountaintop repeater sites in your area that would cover you quite well. You just need a license to use those repeaters. The guy that says he plans on using a repeater system illegally if he breaks his leg or something is not giving good information. By being licensed in advance, you can practice as much as you want, transmitting into the repeater networks, talking to the locals, thereby getting a feel for coverage.

I don't usually take handhelds into the backcountry, but I do have my 50w transceiver in the truck and it's really nice to have when I'm 4 wheeling and there is no cell service. With that kind of power and a nice long antenna, I can get into mountaintop repeaters that are 120+ miles away.

Regarding the question about what radios ski patrol uses on the mountain, I'm sure it's quite common for them to have there own private repeaters set up which helps guarantee coverage throughout their resort.

Finally, I've often thought with a solar panel, battery and 50w transceiver set up in cross-band repeat mode, it'd be pretty easy to build a small private repeater that you could drop in one place, say on a mountaintop, and have a nice setup that could cover a large area.

And by the way Baofang and Wouxun handhelds are cheap China-made knockoffs. I have a few because they are inexpensive. Also, they are "opened up" which expands their transmitting bands to include non-amateur radio frequencies, so you can also use them on GMRS, FRS and MURS. (I also had a GMRS license - it's not expensive and no test is required.) Anyway, the knock-offs are flimsy and feel like they will shatter if you drop one. The more professional level radio manufacturers are Kenwood, ICOM, Yaesu and Motorola. Their handhelds, while more expensive, tend to be more solidly built. My ICOM handheld feels like a brick. But these pro-level radios are also less likely to be "opened up" so they only transmit on amateur frequencies.

getting a technician license is well worth it. it cost like $20 for the test and last 10 years. you can renew it indefinitely. it's absolutely basic electronics and some rules. the test questions are published online, so you can literally drill tests with the real questions.

then as t.farrell said, the baofeng (pronounced bow(like the front of a boat)-fung) uv5r for $20 and a better antenna for another $20. eg Nagoya 771.

plus, you get a sweet callsign!

-w1lzd

John Hegyes wrote: And by the way Baofang and Wouxun handhelds are cheap China-made knockoffs. I have a few because they are inexpensive. Also, they are "opened up" which expands their transmitting bands to include non-amateur radio frequencies, so you can also use them on GMRS, FRS and MURS. (I also had a GMRS license - it's not expensive and no test is required.) Anyway, the knock-offs are flimsy and feel like they will shatter if you drop one. The more professional level radio manufacturers are Kenwood, ICOM, Yaesu and Motorola. Their handhelds, while more expensive, tend to be more solidly built. My ICOM handheld feels like a brick. But these pro-level radios are also less likely to be "opened up" so they only transmit on amateur frequencies.

IMO, the big four HTs are a huge waste of money for the backcountry as they are 4x more expensive than the chinese radios. but the low price point means i could buy and replace 4-5 before buying one new kenwood or yaesu. honestly, to me, the baofeng feels like the old nokia brick phones, basically indestructable.

however, the ham community, for one reason or another has always "preferred" the big four brands for whatever reason and hated on the chinese brands for basically no reason other than "but it's chinese." yes, they aren't quite as nice, yes they transmit a good deal noisier, but is that worth the price difference? no way, especially for a climber/skier.

Lyric Derbin wrote:

Seems like this should belong in the discussion section, not the for sale.

This is the climbing gear discussion forum. I multi pitch climb with radios because of wind cutting off voice communications .  max range is for summoning help and contacting people in the area when there is no cell service. 

For mountaineering or remote climbing the sat or radio is one of the essentials. Can a couple /3 of the higher end handhelds that can bounce off repeaters be bought for less then $1000?Thanks for the answers 

Briggs Lazalde wrote: What do ski patrol use and are those legal to operate? Are they easy to purchase and how expensive? Noob ass question I know but I want a good communication device when on multipitch w my partner out of sight and sound. Not so much communicating home

The ski resorts I've worked at used multi-channel repeater systems. They seem to have the option of going direct between two radios when necessary. 

t.farrell wrote:

You can buy 3 handhelds capable of doing this for less than $100. It depends on whether or not the repeater is within range. 

Do you mean FRS or the type that need a license? I thought FRS couldn’t hit repeaters?

FRS to my knowledge don't or have very few repeaters. GMRS has repeaters, mostly in the cities. Ham radio has tons of repeaters across the world.

I have a 50 watt mobile ham radio in my vehicles. If I want to go for a hike I can have my walkie talkie ham radio his my tuck radio and the truck radio will retransmit the 5 watt signal to a 50 watt signal.

Ham radios make a lot of sense for my remote offroading with my 4x4 club and have in turn become part of my outdoor kit.

For partner to partner climbing on a 200 ft rope you can't be the cost of FRS radios. If you are looking for a little more powa then look into ham.

Chris Blatchley wrote:

... the ham community, for one reason or another has always "preferred" the big four brands for whatever reason and hated on the chinese brands for basically no reason other than "but it's chinese."...

No, the ham community as well as marine, aviation, industrial, et al., have always preferred well-made, reliable gear, regardless of who makes it. If you're just using it for convenience, if it won't be a real problem when it dies, get a cheap radio. No need to spend a lot on something relatively unimportant. If you want to be able to count on it when you need it, something that will take some knocks and still work, that will stand up to weather and not-always-gentle use, spring for something you can count on. My ICOM is still going more than a decade after friends' Baofengs died. Pay your money, take your choice, but don't expect to violate the "get what you pay for" rule any more than the law of gravity. 73 DE KF8MO

I'll offer confirmation and clarification of comments in this thread:

If there is a an obstruction (mountain) between the two radios, there is a low probability that the radios can communicate directly with each other. The solution is to have a strategically positioned repeater that will receive and re-transmit the call. This is the basis for all wireless communications systems.

Repeaters are not normally "open" for anyone to use. Some HAM operators allow others to use their repeaters but you would still need to know the frequency and "access code" (PL or DPL) to use. The ski resort mentioned probably owns their repeater system designed to provide the desired coverage. It is possible to install a temporary repeater but you need to consider power source, mounting location (tower, pole), weatherproof enclosure, and weight.

The VHF frequency band (140 MHz to 170 MHz) is the better for outdoor communications compared to UHF (440-512MHz) or other higher frequencies.

Since the range is limited basically to "line of sight", the brand of radio does not make a huge difference. Get a radio that is durable, reliable, and has the most power. Professional and Public Safety grade radios range from $300 to $5000 each. Other than being rugged/waterproof, an individual would not need the other features and benefits from higher quality radios.

As stated before, the FCC rules limit power for unlicensed operation. It is unlikely that short-term, private use at a higher power would ever be noticed or reported to the FCC. Just make sure you do not ever use any public safety frequency without proper authorization.

Hope this helps.

My comments are based on 25 years in the two-way radio industry.

Whatever you do, get some that have batteries compatible with your headlamp.

Hey guys, I stumbled across this forum and wanted to let you know some friends of mine developed a radio specifically for climbers, called Rocky Talkie. Basically a lightweight, long battery life radio that you can attach to your harness. It's designed to be a durable radio for on-the-wall scenarios but it's got that leash to prevent drops too. It's a FRS License free also.

I've been working with them on their site, branding, and going to events with them. Based in Denver and we're actually at the Moab Craggin Classic right now! Here's the product page if you're interested.

Christina Vidot wrote:

The area I now live in has no cell reception and is very mountainous. I was looking for a way for my homies and me to keep in touch, up to maybe 50 miles away, but primarily within 20 miles, not the line of sight. We've been using the CB portable radios that claim 40 miles, but they fall pretty short with mountains in the way. It would also be handy to have the ability to get a signal out of the Bob Marshal or Frank Church in the event we needed assistance, but not enough to push the panic button on the PLB. 

I've been looking at different websites for handheld, 5-watt V/UHF transceivers, but simply don't know enough about them.

Zoleo or inreach are better solutions.