Any use for directional figure 8?

Hi guys quick question - Does anyone use the directional figure 8 knot? I understand if its loaded in the opposite direction in which it has been tied the knot will fail. The alpine butterfly can be loaded in any direction. Is there any reason to learn this knot fig 8 variation? 

Thanks!

North Col

North Col wrote: Hi guys quick question - Does anyone use the directional figure 8 knot? I understand if its loaded in the opposite direction in which it has been tied the knot will fail. The alpine butterfly can be loaded in any direction. Is there any reason to learn this knot fig 8 variation?

Thanks!

North Col

No. You don´t need the alpine butterfly either come to that.

Jim Titt wrote:

No. You don´t need the alpine butterfly either come to that.

why would you have no use for an alpine butterfly? Please elaborate 

This ought to be good.

North Col wrote:

why would you have no use for an alpine butterfly? Please elaborate 

It´s just another knot that is used to pad out climbing instruction books that achieves nothing better than the basic knots you need, I´ve never needed or wanted to use it in my climbing career.

Hey Jim, how much glacier travel have you done with just you and a partner?

Andrew Yasso wrote: Hey Jim, how much glacier travel have you done with just you and a partner?

Enough to know I don´t particularly enjoy alpinism and to know you don´t need to know how to tie an Alpine Butterfly  

Oh, shoot I forgot this was Mountain Project. If it doesn't fit your use case or what you like to do, it clearly has no merit for anyone else. My bad.

I have occasionally used a directional eight for creating a tie-in point in a main line which ran below me. I’d say not necessary but, on the other hand, you should be able to figure out how to tie it by knowing what an eight is and how it differs from the basic eight.

The butterfly does everything an inline eight does and much more.  Great for party of 3 on one rope.  Great for isolating a damaged section of rope.  Ditch the eight.  Learn the butterfly.  

with your palm facing you and thumb up
wrap the rope around your hand 3 times towards your fingers
take the first strand and make it the second
take the new first strand over the other 2, then under them towards your wrist.  done.

For a party of 3, make the final bight "long".  2-3 feet will give the middle climber 4-6 feet of independence from bottom climber.  If you make it too long, the butterfly will jamb up against gear before you can reach it, potentially putting some needless slack in the system.

Andrew Yasso wrote: Oh, shoot I forgot this was Mountain Project. If it doesn't fit your use case or what you like to do, it clearly has no merit for anyone else. My bad.

North Col asked, if YOU want to decide who gives what answer then start your own forum

Andrew Yasso wrote: Oh, shoot I forgot this was Mountain Project. If it doesn't fit your use case or what you like to do, it clearly has no merit for anyone else. My bad.

Not really. It was just one person's opinion when asked.

Jim Titt wrote:

North Col asked, if YOU want to decide who gives what answer then start your own forum

i see no use if an alpine butterfly does the same with the added bonus of multi directional pull which the directional fig 8 does not offer. To me the fig 8 directional is useless, people are better off learning the alpine. Im trying to chisel down my knot tying to knots that matter, not what i can show off at my local knot party lol by the way you’re all invited! 

Neither do anything better than an overhand on a bight (or easier to untie) a bowline on a bight.

Jim Titt wrote: Neither do anything better than an overhand on a bight (or easier to untie) a bowline on a bight.

I have not even learned the bowline, I see no use as i have learned if it does not keep tension it can come undone (yes i know about the yosemite finish etc.). I would use a fig 8 on a bight instead or a fig 8 follow through, as it is easier to tie and easier to inspect. Easier to untie? Yes there is a little value for the bowline in this regard, if i was traveling in alpine and time was of the essence but still - I see NO use for a bowline. I know i am a beginner but if im wrong please tell me why. I ask only to learn and not to troll. 

Retired climbing ropes are great for towing a car. Use a rewoven figure 8 or figure 8 on a bite once in that application and you’re unlikely to use it for that again.

The 8 is so much harder to untie than a bowline after weighting. 

North Col wrote:

I have not even learned the bowline, I see no use as i have learned if it does not keep tension it can come undone (yes i know about the yosemite finish etc.). I would use a fig 8 on a bight instead or a fig 8 follow through, as it is easier to tie and easier to inspect. Easier to untie? Yes there is a little value for the bowline in this regard, if i was traveling in alpine and time was of the essence but still - I see NO use for a bowline. I know i am a beginner but if im wrong please tell me why. I ask only to learn and not to troll. 

Your fear of the bowline is unfounded. Further a bowline on a bight is completely different and basically impossible to come undone.

Andrew Yasso wrote: Oh, shoot I forgot this was Mountain Project. If it doesn't fit your use case or what you like to do, it clearly has no merit for anyone else. My bad.

Pretty much dude, but you can baffle yourself with all the knot tying bullshit you want if it makes you happy!

There's pretty much nothing you can't do between a Figure 8 and the Clove Hitch. A bowline has it's uses but I don't make it required or anything.

As Jim says the rest is just fluff to fill the pages of some book for sale.

Seven knots to know for rock climbing

Overhand - used to tie two ropes together for rappelling
Figure 8 - used to tie in to a rope
clove hitch - used to attach rope to carabiners
water knot - used to tie webbing
double fishermans - used to tie cord together
Munter hitch - used to rappel because you dropped your ATC, you idiot.

North Col wrote:

I have not even learned the bowline, I see no use as i have learned if it does not keep tension it can come undone (yes i know about the yosemite finish etc.). I would use a fig 8 on a bight instead or a fig 8 follow through, as it is easier to tie and easier to inspect. Easier to untie? Yes there is a little value for the bowline in this regard, if i was traveling in alpine and time was of the essence but still - I see NO use for a bowline. I know i am a beginner but if im wrong please tell me why. I ask only to learn and not to troll. 

A bowline is a great knot to know. I use it as my tie in knot. Can whip on it and it unites with ease as opposed to welding like an eight.

Tim Stich wrote: Seven knots to know for rock climbing

Overhand - used to tie two ropes together for rappelling
Figure 8 - used to tie in to a rope
clove hitch - used to attach rope to carabiners
water knot - used to tie webbing
double fishermans - used to tie cord together
Munter hitch - used to rappel because you dropped your ATC, you idiot.

Excellent. I’d add prussik, but even that can be accomplished with the list of seven.