Not redundant top rope anchor?

What's the general consensus on an anchor that isn't redundant? I set up this anchor today (Goat Rock at Castle Rock State Park in California) and the only option was to sling the giant bomber rock horn.

I used 11mm static line and extended the master point over the edge of the cliff and used two locking 'biners to connect a figure 8 on the end of the rope to an in-line figure 8 in the middle of the rope. I didn't have enough line to wrap twice around the horn.

So, this isn't redundant at all - If the horn fails (it won't) or the anchor rope (or carabiners) fails (possible) we're falling.  

What would have been a better way to handle this? THANKS!

-David

Hmm. It's very concerning. Looks like you've done your homework as I am not finding any better alternative to what you've done. I've been looking forward to TR Goat Rock but I'm not sure I'll be comfortable with such an anchor. Sad. Why isn't whoever is responsible bolting it actually bolting it?

David Dentry wrote:If the horn fails (it won't)

That should answer the non-redundant anchor point component of your question for you ;)

Anchors off a single bomber natural feature are pretty common and are known as monolithic anchors. There are plenty of trad climbs where the rap anchor is tat around a single solid tree or horn.

If that horn were to fail, your fall isn't your biggest problem, it's the several tons of rock coming down after you. The one thing I would have done differently is joined the two strands before they go over the edge. If you end up swinging at all on the TR, the strands might rub along the edge, so making this section redundant and isolated is a good choice. The easiest way to do this is tieing another figure eight on a bight with a big bight, where the TR anchor figure eight is inside the bight.

Leliko Mana wrote: Hmm. It's very concerning. Looks like you've done your homework as I am not finding any better alternative to what you've done. I've been looking forward to TR Goat Rock but I'm not sure I'll be comfortable with such an anchor. Sad. Why isn't whoever is responsible bolting it actually bolting it?

No one is responsible for bolting an outdoor crag so YOU can have a gym experience!

Wrapping that horn has been the normal way to setup a TR there as long as I’ve been climbing. I Learned how to rappel there in March 1994.

Leliko Mana wrote: Hmm. It's very concerning. Looks like you've done your homework as I am not finding any better alternative to what you've done. I've been looking forward to TR Goat Rock but I'm not sure I'll be comfortable with such an anchor. Sad. Why isn't whoever is responsible bolting it actually bolting it?

Didn’t you just buy a bunch of cams? What do you think you’re going to find at the top of trad routes?

It is fine, don't worry about it.

It’s fine.... but you could make your individual legs redundant through some fuckery... worth it? Maybe?

Leliko Mana wrote: Why isn't whoever is responsible bolting it actually bolting it?

Seriously?

Adrienne DiRosario wrote:

Didn’t you just buy a bunch of cams? What do you think you’re going to find at the top of trad routes?

What does my buying of a bunch of cans have to do with this anchor?

At the top of trad routes I expect to find a place to build a decent REDUNDANT anchor. Anything else I should be expecting?

Leliko Mana wrote:

What does my buying of a bunch of cans have to do with this anchor?

At the top of trad routes I expect to find a place to build a decent REDUNDANT anchor. Anything else I should be expecting?

Expect to get roasted daily if you keep posting comments like these!

Leliko Mana wrote:

What does my buying of a bunch of cans have to do with this anchor?

At the top of trad routes I expect to find a place to build a decent REDUNDANT anchor. Anything else I should be expecting?

My point about you purchasing cams was that you’re getting into trad climbing and you shouldn’t expect to find perfect anchor situations or bolts. Often there are no bolts and only single trees or boulder at the top to build your anchor from. There’s nothing wrong with building an anchor off that horn if you do it correctly. 

Leliko Mana wrote:At the top of trad routes I expect to find a place to build a decent REDUNDANT anchor. Anything else I should be expecting?

You can expect a million different possibilities.  Many of them aren't safe unless you actually know what your doing.  The bolting fairies aren't going to come save you.

The anchor in question on this thread is completely bomber.  If you don't have the skill set to use it properly and can't figure out that it is, in fact, a safe trad anchor, then maybe you shouldn't be outside climbing in the real world.  Ridiculous.

Jeff G. wrote:

Seriously?

Yes, Jeff, seriously. In a centrally located area like this, usually some organization has taken over the responsibility to bolt the routes. My friend and I wanted to bolt a local route and we were seriously forbidden from doing so by one of such organizations. I'm not sure specifically about Castle Rock State Park but I have no doubt it had some regulation about it.

Redundancy is a means, not an end. 

Leliko Mana wrote:

Yes, Jeff, seriously. In a centrally located area like this, usually some organization has taken over the responsibility to bolt the routes. My friend and I wanted to bolt a local route and we were seriously forbidden from doing so by one of such organizations. I'm not sure specifically about Castle Rock State Park but I have no doubt it had some regulation about it.

Yes, Castle has had access issues from asshats trying to grid bolt the place. The routes on the right side of Goat Rock (Swiss Cheese, Corner Route, etc) were established as they are. There is no need to add bolts. As I recall, someone put bolts up there about 15 years ago and got their asses handed to them by the local community.
There are (or st least were last time I was there (I moved out of the area in 2015)) bolts above The Great Roof.

Jeff G. wrote:

You can expect a million different possibilities.  Many of them aren't safe unless you actually know what your doing.  The bolting fairies aren't going to come save you.

The anchor in question on this thread is completely bomber.  If you don't have the skill set to use it properly and can't figure out that it is, in fact, a safe trad anchor, then maybe you shouldn't be outside climbing in the real world.  Ridiculous.

Ok, point taken! I've already taken two anchor classes so hopefully I'll be making bomber anchors in no time ;)

Redundancy of anchors is not an issue.  That rock isn’t going anywhere, and as mentioned, if it does, you’re f’d regardless of how many microcams you used to back it up.  Non-redundant soft goods isn’t ideal for toproping; as mentioned, that cord (beefy as it is) running over the edge could be a problem, although I’d still climb on it.  One way of getting redundancy of soft goods around a single anchor is to loop your cord and tie a figure 8:

That massive pile of rope next to the rock tells me you had enough left to do something like this.

If you read the comments on the Mountain Project page for Goat Rock, you will see some back and forth about the anchors there.

Folks placing bolts at Castle are required to get approval from the park. Several attempts at bolting the top of Goat Rock have been chopped/removed over the years.

https://www.mountainproject.com/v/105734054

Alex R wrote: If that horn were to fail, your fall isn't your biggest problem, it's the several tons of rock coming down after you. The one thing I would have done differently is joined the two strands before they go over the edge. If you end up swinging at all on the TR, the strands might rub along the edge, so making this section redundant and isolated is a good choice. The easiest way to do this is tieing another figure eight on a bight with a big bight, where the TR anchor figure eight is inside the bight.

Slight correction here:

The fall isn't the problem. In fact, the fall will not hurt you.
It's the landing that hurts.
And then the horn follows and flattens you in a cartionishingly comical way like Wile E Coyote