Best All Around Ice Tools

I'm shopping for my first set of all-around ice tools; I used a friend's pair of Cassin X-all mountain last season and really liked how they performed, even up to WI5. I'm overall interested in getting into winter mountaineering and alpine climbing, while also being able to join friends for a trip to the ice park to climb up to WI5. I'm debating between the Cassin X-all mountains or the Petzl Quarks - which do you think are better for an all-around tool? (also open to additional recommendations)

If you get Quarks--and they are GREAT tools--ditch the hammer and adze and get pick weights.

coldfinger wrote: If you get Quarks--and they are GREAT tools--ditch the hammer and adze and get pick weights.

Good luck in the alpine without an adze or hammer (pitons are still essential protection on iced rock)...

Nomics.

I have 4 sets of tools but the one I used the most is by far my BD cobras. I do pretty much all pure ice and mixed routes under M8 on them, in addition to all my alpine climbing. 

Of those two I think Quarks offer a bit more versatility overall - they take pick weights for cold/hard ice, the picks are interchangeable with other Petzl tools when you inevitably decide you want more. No better way to decide than to swing both, I'm sure you'll find some people who favor one or the other.

If I could own one set of tools it'd be Nomics (or something similar) personally - I'd compromise to have the better tool for steep stuff. Technical tools all suck in cane mode (though I'm curious about the new Quark with that pommel that flips out of the way) and for self arrest - nothing replaces a true mountaineering axe for easy snow slopes. The Nomics arguably dagger better (angle of shaft keeps your hands out of the snow) and they're not that bad on easy ice. I gave my Quarks to a friend. They're perfectly fine tools, I just didn't find myself using them much after I got the Nomics.

I don't know if you just happen to be a strong climber and were leading grade 5 on borrowed tools your first season, but presuming we're talking about top roping picked out WI5 at Ouray, I'd expect it to feel a lot harder on lead - you might appreciate a big comfy grip more in the future.

X-all’s, gear express had them heavily discounted too.
 

i climbed on all mountains for several seasons. led 4+ and followed 5+ with them. they work on steep ice but the handle is not as nice to hang from and the geometry is not as conducive to real steep ice. they are great all around tools that can add a hammer, adze, and spike options to make it alpine worthy. while most all around tools can climb harder than you ever will, the ease of use for hard ice/drytooling improves with the bigger grip and curvature of the x dream/ergonomic type tool. even the nomics are pretty tame these days compared with the ergo and x dream geometry. quarks and x alls can climb alpine ice to 3-4 bulges and even 5+ vertical ice. they can also manage as a mountain tool but have limitations. which means limitations on a lot of uses but passable, whereas x dreams/ergos are insane on steep ice, but minuses everywhere else. which is why we all have quiver of tools - from a single traditional style piolet, to sumtecs or gulleys for pure alpine and mountain use, to x alls/quarks for a mountain tool/technical tool combo, then your radical drytool/steep ice machine.

Eric and Lucie wrote:

Good luck in the alpine without an adze or hammer (pitons are still essential protection on iced rock)...

You can use the mini marteau.  It doesn't make for a wonky Quark or Nomic swing.

The full size adze and hammer throw the head balance off, they want to twist and bounce more than stick and punch.

Adzes are not much use except for forehead stitches on anything steeper than a regular snow axe requires.

An all-around ice tool is one that you can climb WI and AI as well as plunge into snow and névé. IMHO the Cassin X-all mountain is not an all mtn. tool as it is way too curved. The Petzl Quarks are better choice between the two. Any tool with a sculptured hand grip like the Nomics are not a good all round tool, they can not be plunged. The BD Cobras or Vipers should also be considered. You definitely want a hammer and adze for alpine side of things. An adze does come in handy now and then. Especially when chopping a platform or clearing away large amounts of crap to get to good ice. FWIW I currently use the first gen BD Cobras. I find them to be great all round tools. I easily climb WI5 and AI5 with them.

unless you are doing gnarly 1st ascents you will not need to hammer any pitons...don't know what you would use the adze for...sounds like you will be following some trade routes.

I vote for quarks without hammer/adze, add pick weights.

christoph benells wrote: unless you are doing gnarly 1st ascents you will not need to hammer any pitons...don't know what you would use the adze for...sounds like you will be following some trade routes.

I vote for quarks without hammer/adze, add pick weights.

There are plenty of ice routes around Utah for which the standard rack includes some pins. I almost always carry a couple on the back of my harness when ice climbing, especially when you get away from the road...

My thinking is this: for vertical ice and mixed, most people would be fine with a adze-less tool. Less risk of giving yourself a lobotomy. However, cane use, self arrest and digging into glacial ice for tent anchors all call for an adze. I would recommend a standard ice axe for your alpine routes, and hammered or hammer less tools for vertical ice and mixed. I know, you’re thinking “that’s too much” but a standard ice axe for alpine routes is significantly cheaper than multiple ice tools.  Perfect might be the enemy of the good here. 

Dylan Pike wrote:

 I almost always carry a couple on the back of my harness when ice climbing,

thats cool you carry them

Dylan Pike wrote:

There are plenty of ice routes around Utah for which the standard rack includes some pins. I almost always carry a couple on the back of my harness when ice climbing, especially when you get away from the road...

Someone just getting started in ice climbing does not need pitons.

Nick Sweeney wrote:

Someone just getting started in ice climbing does not need pitons.

No but on many alpine routes one does find old pins that with freeze thaw cycles are less than bomber. Having a hammer end makes it possible to reset the pin. Something every alpinist should be able to do. Also note that the OP wants all-round tools for ice, alpine, and mountain climbing. For that, one certainly wants a hammer end for pounding in pickets or even perhaps a dead-man. Folks are too focused on tools for ice climbing.

Quarks come stock with either the hammer or the adze. Remove and apply as needed.

just don't be a major gumby and buy 2 adzes!

You will still want a standard piolet style axe as well.

Best all around is the All Mountain IMO.

I like my Cobras, but I use tech machines for essentially everything now unless it only needs a piolet. 

Nick Sweeney wrote:

Someone just getting started in ice climbing does not need pitons.

I find it interesting that there are so many people who appear to be arguing that an all around tool should not have a hammer. I wasn't saying that a beginner is going to go out toproping and need to slam in a pin, but if you are looking for an all around tool, you should find one with that capability.

Allen Sanderson wrote: An all-around ice tool is one that you can climb WI and AI as well as plunge into snow and névé. IMHO the Cassin X-all mountain is not an all mtn. tool as it is way too curved. The Petzl Quarks are better choice between the two. Any tool with a sculptured hand grip like the Nomics are not a good all round tool, they can not be plunged. The BD Cobras or Vipers should also be considered. You definitely want a hammer and adze for alpine side of things. An adze does come in handy now and then. Especially when chopping a platform or clearing away large amounts of crap to get to good ice. FWIW I currently use the first gen BD Cobras. I find them to be great all round tools. I easily climb WI5 and AI5 with them.

thank you