Rappelling off the belay loop vs tie-in points

The debate between belaying or rappelling off your belay loop or tie-in points is a real one and it's a question of safety and comfort. Ask any gear manufacturer and they'll recommend that you always connect your belay/rappel device to your belay loop. The tie-in points are for connecting your climbing ropes to your harness. There are a lot of safety reasons for this. Think differently? Try to change my mind. I'd be happy to answer any of your questions if you leave them in the comments below.

benjaminleaton Eaton wrote: The debate between belaying or rappelling off your belay loop or tie-in points is a real one and it's a question of safety and comfort. Ask any gear manufacturer and they'll recommend that you always connect your belay/rappel device to your belay loop. The tie-in points are for connecting your climbing ropes to your harness. There are a lot of safety reasons for this. Think differently? Try to change my mind. I'd be happy to answer any of your questions if you leave them in the comments below.

I don't think there is a real "debate" about this. 

The belay loop, provided there is one, is for belaying and rappeling. That said, I don't think the tri-axial loading on your carabiner from body weight would cause the carabiner to break.

Who uses an 8 anymore?

This belongs in beginners forum, not gear discussion

David Gibbs wrote: Who uses an 8 anymore?

This belongs in... A MUSEUM!

I do extended raps off my PAS which is in the tie in points.

Long Ranger wrote:

This belongs in... A MUSEUM!

The debate between belaying or rappelling off your belay loop or tie-in points is a real one and it's a question of safety and comfort

I remember back when this was a debate, that was like 20 years ago minimum.

Yeah, a raging debate for sure. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Agreed, there hasn't been a debate about this for many years now.  The issue surfaced originally in 2000 with the lead article in the UIAA journal; see https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/socs/lumc/uiaa_equipment.pdf .

The video cites a bunch of "issues" of little practical importance, and in its rush to enumerate (minimally important) drawbacks, actually contradicts itself over the tri-axial loading claims.  First tri-axial loading is bad, but later we hear that it doesn't happen because the waist loop isn't loaded at all.  Can't have it both ways, sparky.

Meanwhile, the video misses the one issue that has caused documented accidents as described in the linked article above.  With the carabiner threaded and so bound in the hard points, a figure-8 device can slip over the gate and then lever it open (locking collars do not add much strength to the gate in this position.  This has happened (in Europe) with catastrophic consequences.

To sum up: debate premise is false, focus is on mostly inconsequential issues, main safety point overlooked.  Other than that, green titles clash with orange and white harness creating intense chromatic dissonance.

Figure-eight devices have pretty much disappeared from the climbing scene, as we're able to use many of the belay devices for rappelling.  But for rappel-intensive activities (like canyoneering), figure-eight style gadgets are probably the norm, as they are simple, robust, provide a range of friction options, are easily tied off, and are really hard to mess up with compared to belay plates.

David Gibbs wrote: Who uses an 8 anymore?

Canyoneers

there isnt any debate about this. read the instructions that come with your harness.

Way up there among first world climbing issues, but about 183rd on the list of shit that's likely to kill or maim you.

RTFM

Jared Casper wrote:

Canyoneers

Yeah, but this is posted on a climbing site.